Hi fellow wiki editors!

To help newly registered users get more familiar with the wiki (and maybe older users too) there is now a {{Welcome to the wiki}} template. Have a look at it and feel free to add it to new users discussion pages (and perhaps your own).

I have tried to keep the template short, but meaningful. /Johan G

Difference between revisions of "FlightGear wiki:Village pump"

From FlightGear wiki
Jump to: navigation, search
(Having separate image categories or not?)
m (Automated translation for the wikipedia template: Spelling in own post)
 
(330 intermediate revisions by 22 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
{{Archives|[[/Archive 2012|2012]], [[/Archive 2013|2013]]}}
+
{{Archives|[[/Archive 2012|2012]]|[[/Archive 2013|2013]]|[[/Archive 2014|2014]]|[[/Archive 2015|2015]]|[[/Archive 2016|2016]]|[[/Archive 2017|2017]]|[[/Archive 2018|2018]]}}
 +
{{shortcut|FGW:VP}}
 +
 
 
Welcome to the '''Village Pump'''. This page is used to discuss the technical issues, operations and guidelines of the [[FlightGear wiki]].
 
Welcome to the '''Village Pump'''. This page is used to discuss the technical issues, operations and guidelines of the [[FlightGear wiki]].
  
: Please [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} add new topics] to the '''bottom''' of this page.
+
Please <span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} add new topics]</span> to the '''bottom''' of this page.
 
+
: Old discussion should be moved to a [[FlightGear wiki:Village pump/Archive YEAR]]. These discussions can then be moved to a relevant talk page if appropriate.
+
 
+
----
+
 
+
== MediaWiki updated to 1.22.0 ==
+
I've updated MediaWiki to the latest stable, 1.22.0 today. Please report bugs if you find any. For a list of changes, see https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Release_notes/1.22
+
 
+
[[User:Gijs|Gijs]] ([[User talk:Gijs|talk]]) 15:00, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
+
 
+
=== Found bugs ===
+
* Clicking the category link at the bottom of some articles will give a fatal error.  For clicking the [[:Category:FlightGear]] at [[FlightGear]] will give the error message: ''Fatal error: Class 'Services_JSON' not found in /home/wiki/wiki/extensions/CategoryTree/CategoryTreeFunctions.php on line 224''.
+
: —[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 03:44, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
+
:: The CategoryTree extension relies on a function that was removed as of 1.22.0, so the extensions needs some fixing. I've disabled it for now.
+
:: [[User:Gijs|Gijs]] ([[User talk:Gijs|talk]]) 13:01, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
+
::: Yay, CategoryTree is back.  Thanks Gijs!
+
::: —[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 19:50, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
+
 
+
* Also, the mobile theme results in an error: ''Fatal error: Call to undefined method MobileFormatter::setHtmlMode() in /home/wiki/wiki/extensions/MobileFrontend/includes/MobileFormatter.php on line 62'' (works fine after selecting desktop mode).
+
: Thanks,
+
: [[User:Philosopher|—Philosopher]] ([[User talk:Philosopher|talk]]) 03:59, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
+
:: I forgot to update the mobile extension. Works again ;-)
+
:: [[User:Gijs|Gijs]] ([[User talk:Gijs|talk]]) 13:01, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
+
 
+
* In the CategoryTree the FlightGear category [[:Category:Documentation|appears empty]]. The solution is reported at [[mw:Extension:CategoryTree#Member counts are wrong, gray arrows ► are shown instead of ►]]. It's a minor problem but the solution looks easy, for what I can tell.
+
: --[[User:Bigstones|Bigstones]] ([[User talk:Bigstones|talk]]) 00:27, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
+
 
+
:: Unfortunately that doesn't seem to help...
+
:: [[User:Gijs|Gijs]] ([[User talk:Gijs|talk]]) 11:11, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
+
 
+
== Got any ideas for a better name for this page? ==
+
As this is for this page in particular, see the [[FlightGear wiki talk:Village pump#Any ideas for a better name|talk page]].
+
 
+
—[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 15:44, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
+
 
+
== Template for announcement of changes and new features ==
+
 
+
From a forum PM from Hooray (posted here with his permission):
+
 
+
<div style="background: #fafaf0; padding: 1em;">
+
hi, whenever we announce a new feature, we typically need to do this in three places:
+
 
+
* newsletter
+
* changelog
+
* the docs (corresponding wiki articles)
+
 
+
so far, we have always copied & pasted things, I would prefer to have a single template for this instead, something like
+
{{tlx|Announce|version|description}}
+
 
+
This could add announcements to each release cycle (i.e. 3.2 currently), and we could maybe automatically add things to the newsletter and the release changelog.
+
 
+
Like I said, I would like to avoid redundant efforts, i.e. less copy & paste
+
 
+
Do you have any ideas on how to implement this using existing wiki means ?
+
 
+
Ideally, we would create a new announcement, like for example "canvas mouse button support", and could then use this announcement in all 3 places by calling the corresponding template.
+
 
+
 
+
Thanks
+
</div>
+
My take is that to use a separate template for each new feature is not a good idea, but if I understand him correctly his intention is to gather up each months new features in one template.
+
 
+
Any thoughts on this?
+
 
+
—[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 17:14, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
+
 
+
{{WIP}}
+
 
+
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-left: 1.5em;">I am thinking of restructuring the way we're writing our newsletter by focusing on our "ugly stepchild", namely the "changelog" - as others like Torsten have pointed out, we should ideally be writing the changelog as early as possible - but the truth is, it's mostly forum people contributing to it, and it's not seen too many edits. The newsletter is working a bit better for us. So I was thinking of how to unify both worlds - especially keeping in mind that our changelog encompasses basically 6 months, i.e. 6 newsletter editions.
+
 
+
So I am considering to split up our newsletter into a handful of building blocks and use a few templates, so that additions are added through a few custom templates, that would automatically add things to the changelog.
+
 
+
The changelog would then be written by contributing to the newsletter  and using the proper templates, such as e.g.:
+
 
+
{{changelog|version=3.2|category:aircraft|type=updated|announcement=The 747-400 and 777-200 have received extensive updates, and are now both using the new MapStructure-based NavDisplay framework|screenshots=|videos=}}
+
 
+
The changelog would then  be procedurally assembled by processing all templates for the corresponding release cycle.
+
 
+
I would even consider locking the changelog itself, and making it just a template that references the stuff included via templates.
+
 
+
We may however benefit from a few additional mediawiki extensions. But otherwise, I am hoping that the changelog is going to be more comprehensive, while the wiki would become more "formal" - we could obviously still support additions without using changelog-templates, i.e. those would be excluded.
+
 
+
thoughts / ideas ?
+
 
+
(CC'ing Philosopher, because he's been doing some template stuff, too)</pre>
+
 
+
 
+
:Need to come up with a template that handles announcements, primarily for the changelog and the newsletter. There's a mutual relationship here, but the newsletter is much more popular, i.e. sees more contributions and more activity overall. Changelog writing is still a chore. But basically 6 months worth of newsletters are equivalent to a single changelog, we only need to establish some framework around this - and then the whole changelog could be mostly based on newsletter contributions. It would greatly help to request people to make announcements ALWAYS using 3rd person speech, so that things can be directly copied from the forum/devel list to the newsletter/changelog. That's kinda the idea here. It would reduce our workload quite significantly
+
 
+
:* Changelog
+
:* Newsletter
+
:* Devel List
+
:* Forum
+
:* Website
+
 
+
:{{unsigned|21:25, 24 April 2014‎|Hooray}}
+
 
+
::I will probably have to take a look at this now and again to think about if and how this could be done.  I assume Hooray is aiming at having each newsletter and change log built up mostly from "instances" of a template like in the above comments.
+
 
+
::There are pros and cons with this approach, as with any.  I think that one of the cons is that even the slightest overhead and/or complication might scare away a few contributors.  But at the other hand I fully understand that reading through six months of newsletters + forum posts + devel list posts are not that fun either (though I would guess that is not how things are done ;-).
+
 
+
  
::''Slightly off topic'' is that I would like to see a section in the change log mentioning changes that will break backwards compatibility.  I first saw such a section, "Breaking changes", in the [https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Release_notes/1.22&oldid=848518#MediaWiki_1.22.0 change log of MedeiaWiki 1.22] when the software of this wiki was updated, and figured it would be a good idea.  This could be useful for things like for example figuring out whether FlightGear x.x can use World Scenery y.y.
+
Old discussions should be moved to a [[FlightGear wiki:Village pump/Archive YEAR]]. These discussions can then be moved to a relevant talk page if appropriate.
  
::''Even more off topic'' I think that the wiki/newsletter/devel list/etc are rather blunt tools for keeping an up to date change log.  My gut feeling is that there are tools for that around, and even if we do not use them we might borrow some ideas from them, hopefully without bringing a lot of red tape(!).
+
== Welcoming template ==
 +
I have had a shelved draft of a welcoming template laying in a subpage for quite a while that I have dusted off and rewritten.
  
::—[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 20:14, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
+
It has a welcoming message and some links I hope will be useful to new users (and perhaps not so new ones as well).  The idea is that when some of us sees that there is a new user we will add that template to the top of the new users discussion page.  I am not sure about whether we should wait till the user have made some edits (to see if it is a bot) or if we should add it at once.
  
::: Interesting subject! I think going through just 6 newsletters by hand is more rewarding than coming up with complex templates that will increase the entry barrier of the newsletter and still require summarising/rewordings afterwards to fit the concise format of a changelog. Introducing a template on the wiki won't take away the forum/devel list scanning that's required as not everyone contributes to the wiki.
+
I would like to have some more eyes on it to see for example if I should have some more or some less links, or if there is something I did not think of. I tried to use as few links as possible, while also keeping ones a new user might hope is there, but do not know where to look for.
::: I do support the "breaking changes" idea though ;-)
+
::: [[User:Gijs|Gijs]] ([[User talk:Gijs|talk]]) 19:18, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
+
  
== Very dispersed Boeing 777 articles! ==
+
When I feel content with it I will move it to the template namespace and add a site notice linking to it for a while, as I am not sure if you all look here or on [[Special:RecentChanges]].
  
Hi, I got interested in Flightgear and was taking a look at the Boeing 777 articles and noticed that it was incredibly spread out.
+
<s>Anyway here is my current draft (do not hesitate to add suggestions on its discussion page): User:Johan G/Template:Welcome to the wiki</s>
  
Each aircraft has it's own page with information to varying degrees of completeness. Having a look at the A330 articles, they are much more 'aligned' and it's a lot easier to find stuff. Maybe this could be something that could be done with the Boeing.  Since both seem to be very similar, I'm thinking that there could be a common page on help and tutorials respectively, with the individual type pages catering to unique information. I started on some stuff but pretty quickly figured out it was a better idea to check here first :)
+
—[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 13:02, 15 April 2019 (EDT)
  
--[[User:Manfred|Manfred]] ([[User talk:Manfred|talk]]) 11:55, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
+
:: The template is now moved to {{tl|Welcome to the wiki}}
 +
:: —[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 18:19, 17 April 2019 (EDT)
  
: Doing a simple search for pages containing "777" (see [http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?search=777&title=Special%3ASearch&fulltext=1 this link]) I quickly see what you mean.
+
: Hi Johan,
 +
: The template looks good to me!
 +
: [[User:Gijs|Gijs]] ([[User talk:Gijs|talk]]) 06:48, 16 April 2019 (EDT)
  
: I assume that the different versions may have different authors and thus probably are slightly different from each other when it comes to handling and completenessIt might be a good idea to start by going through each of the help pages and tutorials (preferably while playing with the different aircraft at the same time), as well as having a look at help dialogues and any readmes in the aircraft packages.
+
: It looks good to me tooWhat about using [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Create_User_Page Extension:Create User Page] to fully automate the process?
 +
: [[User:Bugman|Bugman]] ([[User talk:Bugman|talk]]) 09:57, 16 April 2019 (EDT)
  
: Making a common page, while highlighting differences between the different versions, could probably help other users a lot and may perhaps be a help for aircraft developers to use features from more complete versions to improve the other ones as well as help motivate harmonizing handling like for example key bindings.
+
:: If you mean as in automatically creating a user discussion page and adding the welcome template?  Though it would probably be a good idea, as likely no one will be left without a welcome, it kind of feels better if it is done by a being of flesh and blood than if it was done by a bot. Consider me undecided. ;-)
 +
:: —[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 18:13, 17 April 2019 (EDT)
  
: If I understand your intention I can not see why anyone would do anything but trying to give you helpful hints, after all this is a wiki. :-)
+
::: It is a worry that the automation will not seem personal.  However I just counted the [[Special:Log/newusers|new user registrations]] from 17/04/2018 to 17/04/2019.  There are 113 registrations!  Maybe 5% are not bots, but identifying these is hard.  I think it will be too overwhelming for any individual to manually do this.
  
: One hint for starters is to begin working on a page as a subpage to your user page, like for example [[User:Manfred/Boeing 777 Autopilot]] (I just moved it) and then moving it to the article namespace when you feel it has reached the level where you are comfortable with it (though this is not by any means necessary, it's just that I like doing so myself).
+
::: [[User:Bugman|Bugman]] ([[User talk:Bugman|talk]]) 01:43, 18 April 2019 (EDT)
  
: —[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 16:40, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
+
:::: One registration every second day.  Automation might not be such a bad idea after all.
 +
:::: I noticed though that [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Create_User_Page Extension:Create User Page] does not create the user ''discussion'' page, which is where such messageboxes typically are placed. Maybe not a big problem.
 +
:::: —[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 12:46, 19 April 2019 (EDT)
  
: I am interested to help, this page could be a model of what we could offer : [http://wiki.flightgear.org/Boeing_787-8_Dreamliner 777-8 Dreamliner]
+
:::: A site notice is now up with the text "Hi fellow wiki users!
: -- [[User:F-JYL|F-JYL]] 21 April 2014 09:32
+
  
== Bash and DOS syntax highlighting ==
+
:::: To help new users get more familiar with the wiki (and maybe older users too) there is now a {{tl|Welcome to the wiki}} template. Have a look at it and feel free to add it to new users discussion pages (and perhaps your own).
  
[[User:Daemonburrito|Daemonburrito]] found that we can use syntax highlighting for Bash.  I guess that means that we could use syntax highlighting for most Linux (and possibly also Mac) command lines.  Looking at [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi]] I find that we also also probably can use that for DOS prompts.
+
:::: I have tried to keep the template short, but meaningful. /{{usr|Johan G}}"
  
—[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 07:24, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
+
:::: —[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 06:13, 26 April 2019 (EDT)
  
: We've had that extension installed for a while now. Everything that's listed at [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi#Supported_languages Supported languages] is supported, plus Nasal.
+
I just noticed [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage Extension:NewUserMessage] which seems perfectly suited to be used the way Bugman mentioned  [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Create_User_Page Extension:Create User Page] above on 16 April. This extension automatically creates a discussion page with a message for new users.
: [[User:Gijs|Gijs]] ([[User talk:Gijs|talk]]) 11:23, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
+
[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 10:44, 22 June 2019 (EDT)
  
:: I'm aware of the list, but was not aware that syntax highlighting could be used for shell programming (and hence shell promts) and guessed I was not alone.
+
: I think we should really use such an extension.  There are just too many new user subscriptions to do this manually (and my experience from [http://wiki.nmr-relax.com/ my own wiki] is that 99% of subscriptions are failed bots)I say install it asap. It would really benefit real new users who might be lost under the load of failed bot registrationsCan you install it yourself Johan?
:: Basically added the topic to highlight (pun intended) the possibility to do soI should probably also mention it in [[Help:Formatting#Syntax highlighting]].
+
:: —[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 13:53, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
+
  
== A plan for a reorganization of the wiki ==
+
: [[User:Bugman|Bugman]] ([[User talk:Bugman|talk]]) 03:50, 2 July 2019 (EDT)
  
There is an ongoing discussion on [[User:Bigstones/Essay:A plan for a reorganization of the wiki]]. Please comment on its talk page, to avoid scattering the discussion. This "section" is only intended to inform about it.
+
:: No, I can not install wiki extensions (I am a wiki admin just like you). Simon, the maintainer, can for sure do it and I think that maybe Gijs could do do it.
--[[User:Bigstones|Bigstones]] ([[User talk:Bigstones|talk]]) 12:53, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
+
:: —[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 10:21, 4 July 2019 (EDT)
  
== The new progress bar icons ==
+
:: Sent a mail to Gijs and Simon, with a copy to you.
 +
:: —[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 12:24, 4 July 2019 (EDT)
  
I just changed icons that {{tl|progressbar}} is using and would like some constructive feedback.
+
=== Adding it to all user discussion pages? ===
 +
I have started to wonder if we maybe should add the template to all of the user discussion pages (but not archived ones of course).
  
Some things I have noted myself is that while I used a blend of the colours used in the old icons and in some of [[Special:ListFiles/Johan_G|my other icons]], these icons have a much larger coloured area and thus might have a little high contrast.
+
What would be the advantages and disadvantages of that.  Personally I see more advantages than disadvantages with that.
  
In any way I am going to let this rest for a week or two and follow it up then.
+
This would be a bot job of course.
  
—[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 01:05, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
+
—[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 08:50, 21 June 2019 (EDT)
  
: After having made them a tiny pixel smaller (from 16 px to 15 px) and having done no other changes I seem to be liking them more and more, so I leave them in their current state.
+
== The lead section, or first section, as I have called it ==
: —[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 18:13, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
+
Most of the time when I have been writing help pages I have tried to use the terminology used on Wikipedia and its sister projects, but somehow I have called the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section&oldid=895095452 lead section] (or ''lead'' or ''introduction'') ''first section'' and done that consistently.  I have gone through the help pages and changed that.
  
== Category:Support ==
+
[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 08:56, 23 May 2019 (EDT)
As it seems that support organization is a priority, I created [[:Category:Support]]. I hope the name is generic enough to avoid misunderstandings... but I thought better to have a bad one, than nothing. I'll try to put there everything on support I find so that it can be better organized (merged/split and then cleaned up).
+
--[[User:Bigstones|Bigstones]] ([[User talk:Bigstones|talk]]) 13:06, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
+
  
:Hi,
 
:
 
:I didn't read through all of your ideas yet, but isn't "Support" a rather obscure term? Everything could fit under that branch, so we'll end up with yet another giant category; which you tried to prevent, right? Or maybe I'm just missing the bigger picture...
 
  
:[[User:Gijs|Gijs]] ([[User talk:Gijs|talk]]) 13:23, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
+
== Automated translation for the wikipedia template ==
  
:: Hi, I figured out (''edit: led to figure out'') that support organization is a major problem. There's a lot of "support" related articles, 2-3 articles only on OpenGL. I hoped that this name could indeed be wide enough, and that in case it could just be renamed. Troubleshooting seemed to narrow to me on the other side, but if you think that would be better I can change it now (waiting for response before proceeding).--[[User:Bigstones|Bigstones]] ([[User talk:Bigstones|talk]]) 13:29, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
+
Just for the record, I attempted to modify {{tl|wikipedia}} to automatically determine the page language and point to the non-english Wikipedia page without the {{param|lang}} parameter. I have recently added the {{param|wikipedia}} parameter to {{tl|infobox aircraft}} and was hoping to use the language auto-detection to have the wikipedia infobox link point to the correct translation at Wikipedia.  I could not use <code>{{obr}}PAGELANGUAGE{{cbr}}</code> as this required MediaWiki >= 1.29 (see [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Magic_words#Technical_metadata]).  So I unsuccessfully attempted to use the same logic as the {{tl|LangSwitch}} parameter.  I reverted all changes as there appears to be no way to correctly detect the page language (other than wait for the next MediaWiki upgrade to expose <code>{{obr}}PAGELANGUAGE{{cbr}}</code>).
  
::: Take [[Settings for slower graphics cards]] for example. It's categorised under [[:Category:Performance tuning]]. I would expect that to be a sub of [[:Category:Support]]. Anyone looking for articles on how to improve performance can check that category then. I don't expect anyone to go through a very broad category with 100s of articles to find info on a rather specific subject.
+
[[User:Bugman|Bugman]] ([[User talk:Bugman|talk]]) 05:51, 24 May 2019 (EDT)
::: Or maybe I should reword my comment into a question: What would be the use case of [[:Category:Support]]?
+
::: [[User:Gijs|Gijs]] ([[User talk:Gijs|talk]]) 13:39, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
+
::: PS: I know we have a lot of bloated categories on this wiki, so I'm glad you've brought all this back on the agenda ;-)
+
  
:::: With the example: I confess I was probably deceived by the presence of some development related stuff in [[:Category:Performance tuning]]. I thought it would be better to separate development and usage. Framerate is either a user issue, or a developer's aim. I think the two can be separated. The problem is I moved out the most of it! I should consider the contrary. I'll undo. (I currently have like 20 open browser tabs so it might take me some time).
+
: Note that this means that the aircraft infobox wikipedia link can only point to the English page until an upgrade occurs (this is not urgent though).
:::: The use case however is: gather support articles so that a maintainer can split/merge them to make them more organized. Once that's done, there won't probably be more than 10 articles, and if there are, still one can subcategorize. In the above case, I just took the longest path, but given the lack of tools I confess I just wanted to get started.
+
:::: --[[User:Bigstones|Bigstones]] ([[User talk:Bigstones|talk]]) 14:00, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
+
:::: ... I must confess also that after undoing, I feel the urge to redo that again. The two non-support related articles, [[GIT Performance Tests]] and [[Howto:Use the system monitor]] (where btw, the "profiling" section might be directed to ''core'' developers?) would have no place if I move this category into support. That's also why I moved it into Development. Let me know what you think, also regarding the Support category name.
+
:::: --[[User:Bigstones|Bigstones]] ([[User talk:Bigstones|talk]]) 14:24, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
+
  
== FlightGear screenshot categories ==
+
: [[User:Bugman|Bugman]] ([[User talk:Bugman|talk]]) 06:01, 24 May 2019 (EDT)
  
I have been thinking about this for quite a while.  When I was categorising the images, I gave the categories with the FlightGear screenshots quite cumbersome and long names.
+
:: <code><nowiki>{{lc: {{#titleparts: {{PAGENAME}} | 1}} }}</nowiki></code> should return the language code needed for the '''lang=''' parameter.
  
I guess the discussions with Bigstones, in particular [http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Bigstones/Essay:A_plan_for_a_reorganization_of_the_wiki&diff=70678&oldid=70675 my reply here] (see second paragraph under 2.) might have stirred up some old dust for me. :-)
+
:: Note that you will only be able to pull this of where the article title is ''exactly the same'' in another language. If a model for example have have another name in one country (like cars sometimes have) the link will fail. If the title is transcribed the link will fail. Etc.
  
The cumbersome and long names has a couple negative effects.  Firstly they are way longer to type than should be necessary, secondly, and more important I think, the probability that they show up in the upload wizard probably is rather low as they all begin with "FlightGear..." (what was I thinking, like if someone would upload a bunch of X-Plane screenshots here).  I ''guess'' that by beginning most if not all screenshot category names with "Screenshots of..." the chances they would be used will increase.
+
:: —[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 07:16, 24 May 2019 (EDT)
  
In addition to that some of those categories are way too large and need to be diffused (broken down into smaller categories).
+
== Expansion of the upload licence list and uploading errors ==
  
I have noted that a lot of aircraft images have been added to the aircraft article categories.  I would prefer if the screenshot categories associated with different kinds of aircraft (e.g. fighters or airliners) would be subcategories to the screenshot categories ''and'' that those screenshot categories would be a subcategory to the category for those kinds of aircraft. I have at some point started to try mimic the structure of [[:Category:Aircraft by type]] in [[:Category:FlightGear screenshots of aircraft by type]], but got distracted or forgot about it for a whileSometing similar might be needed for the cockpit screenshots.
+
I've always been concerned that we do not present enough licence choices for the graphics uploaded to the wikiIn testing this, I've noticed that I can no longer upload graphics to the wiki! I see a red exclamation mark and the text <code>Unknown error: "unknown"</code>, <code>None of the uploads were successful.</code>, the button <code>Retry failed uploads</code>, and <code>0 of 1 file uploaded</code>Has any one else seen this?
  
The note about intended contents should also mention that these categories are intended only for in-sim screenshots from FlightGear.
+
Also, is there a reason we don't update [[MediaWiki:Licenses]]?  I think I'll add the CC v4.0 licenses so those can be selected.  I'll probably also add the GPL.
  
In conclusion I suggest, and would like feedback on, the following:
+
[[User:Bugman|Bugman]] ([[User talk:Bugman|talk]]) 04:22, 27 May 2019 (EDT)
  
{| class="wikitable"
+
: While I have not tested uploading, according the [http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=upload&user=&page=&year=&month=-1&tagfilter=&hide_patrol_log=1&hide_tag_log=1 upload log] files were uploaded as recent as the 26th.
! Current category !! Suggested new category !! Alternative new category !! Comment
+
: Regarding the licenses it might be a good idea to add any missing [[:Category:License templates|license templates]].
|-
+
: —[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 08:39, 28 May 2019 (EDT)
| [[:Category:FlightGear cockpit screenshots‎]] || [[:Category:Screenshots of cockpits]] || Cockpit screenshots ||
+
|-
+
| [[:Category:FlightGear cockpit close-up screenshots‎]] || [[:Category:Screenshots of cockpit details]] || Cockpit close-up screenshots ||
+
|-
+
| [[:Category:FlightGear dialogue screenshots‎]]
+
| <s>Category:Screenshots of ‎dialogues</s>
+
  
[[:Category:Screenshots of dialogs in FlightGear‎]]
+
== Conversion of direct forum links and URLs to templates ==
| <s>Dialogue</s> dialog box screenshots ||
+
|-
+
| [[:Category:FlightGear exterior screenshots]]‎ || [[:Category:Screenshots of aircraft]] || Exterior screenshots ||
+
|-
+
| [[:Category:FlightGear interior screenshots]] || [[:Category:Screenshots of cabins]] || Cabin screenshots ||
+
|-
+
| [[:Category:FlightGear scenery screenshots]]‎ || [[:Category:Screenshots of scenery]] || Scenery screenshots ||
+
|-
+
| Category:FlightGear screenshots of aircraft by type || [[:Category:Screenshots of aircraft by type]] || &mdash; || Should only contain categories
+
|-
+
| [[:Category:FlightGear screenshots of vehicles]] || [[:Category:Screenshots of vehicles]] || Vehicle screenshots ||
+
|-
+
| [[:Category:FlightGear weather screenshots]]‎ || [[:Category:Screenshots of weather]] || Weather screenshots ||
+
|}
+
  
In essence it is a huge bot job, except for the diffusion of the largest screenshot categories.
+
I'll continue the discussions of [[Template talk:Forum link#Usable as replacement for cite web used for forum links?]] here.  After much editing of {{tl|project infrastructure}}, {{tl|project infrastructure option}}, {{tl|forum url}}, and {{tl|forum link}}, I have now gone through the wiki [http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?title=Special:Search&search=forum.flightgear.org&fulltext=Search&profile=all] [http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?title=Special:Search&limit=500&offset=0&profile=all&search=flightgear.org] and converted almost all direct links and URLs to the forum to use these new templates.  I used macros in ''vim'' to simplify and semi-automate the process.  There should now be almost no direct references to forum.flightgear.org left.  If I have missed anything obvious please point it out to me.
  
[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 15:57, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
+
[[User:Bugman|Bugman]] ([[User talk:Bugman|talk]]) 09:49, 6 June 2019 (EDT)
  
: As I might have said already, I'm ok with it and in particular I agree that images would be easier to find if in their own branch. The only thing, I think it's not going to last if the upload wizard doesn't enforce the use of a subcat of "Files", or at least, suggests that area in some handy way (i.e. not a written notice). Maybe the CategoryTree could be included (like with templates) to help finding the right category? It's hard to figure out a good one by typing characters one by one.
+
: I've found more direct forum links and converted those. However I've also noticed that [[Special:Search]] does not reveal all instances of ''forum.flightgear.org'' or ''flightgear.org/forums''!?  Does anyone know how to hunt down every last direct link? Cheers!
: --[[User:Bigstones|Bigstones]] ([[User talk:Bigstones|talk]]) 21:49, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
+
  
:: Created the category pages as above, except for Category:Screenshots of ‎dialogues, which I found a bit ambiguous.  I named that one Category:Screenshots of dialogues in FlightGear‎ instead.
+
: [[User:Bugman|Bugman]] ([[User talk:Bugman|talk]]) 06:17, 7 June 2019 (EDT)
:: I have also added a request at the [[User talk:BotFlightGear#FlightGear screenshot categories|bot talk page]] ([http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?title=User_talk:BotFlightGear&oldid=71130#FlightGear_screenshot_categories permalink])
+
:: —[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 17:59, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
+
  
::: Did the move to [[:Category:Screenshots of aircraft by type]] by hand. Was only a few files.
+
:: That was huge amount of work.  Side note: In disbelief I looked at some of the edits where using the template decreased the article size by several kilobytes.
::: —[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 18:46, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
+
:: There is a special page for looking for external links, [[Special:LinkSearch]], that might be useful. Unfortunately it only looks for the domain, so you will have to sift though the results for the relevant hits. ([http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?target=*.flightgear.org&namespace=&title=Special%3ALinkSearch External link search for "*.flightgear.org"].)
 +
:: —[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 10:19, 7 June 2019 (EDT)
  
::: I hope I'm not late, I noticed only now, but ''dialogue'' tends to be used more as in "discussion between two", while the GUI elements are usually spelled ''dialogs''. I guess that more than real confusion this distinction would cause just minor hilarity, but... you never know, you might find in there screenshots of radio chat with ATC. (being not a native english speaker, [http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/59640/what-is-the-difference-between-dialogue-and-dialog here's my ref.]) --[[User:Bigstones|Bigstones]] ([[User talk:Bigstones|talk]]) 19:20, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
+
::: Those articles with big diffs were usually the poor-quality articles pumped full of {{tl|cite web}} text.  I used vim macros to quickly convert them, but had to manually check every change to be sure as there were some issues.
  
:::: Well spotted, good reference as well and most important not too late. Thank you! I was wondering a bit but guessed that dialog was more or less colloquial as dialogue seemed correct with both my browsers English and American English dictionariesSwedish schools teaching (very!) British English probably have something to do with my spelling as well.
+
::: I'd completely forgotten about [[Special:LinkSearch]].  I had used that previously to convert all repository links to convert the entire wiki to use the [[:Category:Repository link templates]] template familyI now see that the forum link conversion is a much, much, much bigger job! I currently see:
:::: Changed the request on the [[User talk:BotFlightGear#FlightGear screenshot categories|bot page]] from Category:Screenshots of dialogues in FlightGear‎ to  [[:Category:Screenshots of dialogs in FlightGear‎]].
+
:::* <code><nowiki>http://forum.flightgear.org</nowiki></code>: [http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&limit=3000&offset=0&target=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.flightgear.org 2,386 hits].
:::: —[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 14:06, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
+
:::* <code><nowiki>https://forum.flightgear.org</nowiki></code>: [http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&limit=3000&offset=0&target=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.flightgear.org 2,029 hits].
 +
:::* <code><nowiki>http://flightgear.org/forums</nowiki></code>: [http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&limit=500&offset=0&target=http%3A%2F%2Fflightgear.org%2Fforums 295 hits]
 +
:::* <code><nowiki>https://flightgear.org/forums</nowiki></code>: [http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&limit=500&offset=0&target=https%3A%2F%2Fflightgear.org%2Fforums 0 hits]
  
=== Having separate image categories or not? ===
+
::: Unfortunately in converting all the direct links I found via the normal search, I know that we won't be able to automate/script this.  There are far too many different ways these forum links are presented.  For example a link ending with the anchor <code>#p1234</code> or simply having <code>p=1234</code> in the URL can have all other elements (''t'', ''f'', ''sid'', etc.) removed and drop to simply <code>{{obr}}forum link{{!}}p=1234{{cbr}}</code>, with either the {{param|text}} or {{param|title}} parameters specified as neededSome forum links are unnecessarily long.  A link to a post only needs {{param|p}}, a link to a topic only {{param|t}} and a link to a subforum only {{param|f}}.  The exception being ''hilit''.  However ''hilit'' is often present in the URL without any keywords.  Then there is also a mix of using <code>=</code> and <code><nowiki>{{=}}</nowiki></code> in the URLs.  And it is not always completely obvious if {{tl|forum url}} or {{tl|forum link}} should be used.  The only regularity is in the {{tl|cite web}} usage, but that also appears to have 3 or 4 forms that have evolved over time.
One thing that keeps nagging me is that all Wikipedias I have been able to read and some I can hardly read (English, Swedish + German and French) have separate categories for files/imagesThere is probably a reason for that (I am guessing at mainly ease of finding images for articles and possibly also for bandwidth reasons).
+
  
The upload wizard is borrowed from Wikimedia Commons <small>(but is it properly attributed?)</small> where pretty much all categories are for files/images.  While I am not aware of its technical details I see few if any efficient ways it could be modified to only or primarily suggest image categories.  As I see it it would require a ''fresh and updated'' list of categories that in one way or another would require some manual intervention.
+
::: [[User:Bugman|Bugman]] ([[User talk:Bugman|talk]]) 11:28, 7 June 2019 (EDT)
  
Two things I have done so far is to re-categorize images and that I have begun trying to link the nodes to the nodes in the branch with the article categories by putting the image categories in the article categories (this is done on a very small scale though).
+
=== Update ===
  
Questions is though:  What is in the best interest of the users?  Should I keep on having them separate or should I just let it grow wild(er)? It could be an interesting experiment though it would require a lot of work if it turns out less favourable.
+
I've eliminated all <code>flightgear.org/forums</code> hard links on the wiki to use {{tl|forum url}} and {{tl|forum link}}. The numbers are now:
 +
* <code><nowiki>http://forum.flightgear.org</nowiki></code>: [http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&limit=5000&offset=0&target=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.flightgear.org 1,918 hits].
 +
* <code><nowiki>https://forum.flightgear.org</nowiki></code>: [http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&limit=5000&offset=0&target=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.flightgear.org 3,016 hits].
 +
* <code><nowiki>http://flightgear.org/forums</nowiki></code>: [http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&limit=500&offset=0&target=http%3A%2F%2Fflightgear.org%2Fforums 0 hits]
 +
* <code><nowiki>https://flightgear.org/forums</nowiki></code>: [http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&limit=500&offset=0&target=https%3A%2F%2Fflightgear.org%2Fforums 0 hits]
  
—[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 22:02, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
+
For reference, here are my vim macros.  These are placed into the <code>~/.vimrc</code> file:
  
 +
<syntaxhighlight lang=vim>
 +
" --- FlightGear forum conversions ---
 +
" Link: Convert [http://www.flightgear.org/forums forums] to {{forum link|text=forums}}.
 +
let @f='/[http.*forum^Mv/ ^Mc{{forum link|text=^[/]^Mvc}}^[/forum^MN'
 +
" Link: Convert [http://flightgear.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=13 section of our forum] to {{forum link|f=13|text=section of our forum}}.
 +
let @g='/[http.*forum^Mv/f=^Mhc{{forum link|^[/ ^Mvc|text=^[/]^Mvc}}^[/forum^MN'
 +
" Link: Convert [http://flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7485#p102005] to {{forum link|p=102005}}.
 +
let @p='/[http.*forum^Mv/#^Mc{{forum link|^[la=^[/]^Mvc}}^[/forum^MN'
 +
" Link: Convert [http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14254 thread] to {{forum link|t=14254|text=thread}}.
 +
let @t='/[http.*forum^Mv/t=^Mhc{{forum link|^[/ ^Mvc|text=^[/]^Mvc}}^[/forum^MN'
 +
" Link: Convert [http://flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=15267#p149971 this short essay] to {{forum link|p=149971|text=this short essay}}.
 +
let @s='/[http.*forum^Mv/#^Mc{{forum link|^[la=^[/ ^Mvc|text=^[/]^Mvc}}^[/forum^MN'
 +
" Link: Convert [http://flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1697&p=12549 ARINC] to {{forum link|p=12549|text=ARINC}}.
 +
let @r='/[http.*forum^Mv/p=^Mhc{{forum link|^[/ ^Mvc|text=^[/]^Mvc}}^[/forum^MN'
 +
" Link: Convert [http://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=22840] to {{forum link|t=22840}}.
 +
let @l='/[http.*forum^Mv/t=^Mhc{{forum link|^[/]^Mvc}}^[/forum^MN'
 +
" Link: Convert [http://flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10488&p=144233&hilit=snapshot#p144233 at the forum] to {{forum link|hilit=snapshot|p=144233|text=at the forum}}.
 +
let @i='/[http.*forum^Mv/hilit^Mhc{{forum link|^[/#^Mxi|^[la=^[/ ^[vc|text=^[/]^Mvc}}^[/forum^MN'
 +
" Link: Convert [http://flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=20214&p=186020&hilit=xml+french#p185963] to {{forum link|hilit=xml+french|p=185963}}.
 +
let @j='/[http.*forum^Mv/hilit^Mhc{{forum link|^[/#^Mxi|^[la=^[/]^Mvc}}^[/forum^MN'
  
:I saw you implementing this at some of my airport screen-shots and immediately adopted it on other images. I think your idea of separating those categories would help us puting a link at the end of each article which says: "Media about :XY". Thats why I think all the other wikis provide separated categories. That's the only way to get linkable categories which only contains media.
+
" URL: Convert http://flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14758 to {{forum url|t=14758}}.
 +
let @w='/http.*forum^Mv/t=^Mhc{{forum url|^[llea}}^[/forum^MN'
 +
" URL: Convert http://flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2766&p=26459&hilit=generic+protocol#p26459 to {{forum url|hilit=generic+protocol|p=26459}}.
 +
let @h='/http.*forum^Mv/hilit^Mhc{{forum url|^[/#^Mxi|^[la=^[ea}}^[/forum^MN'
 +
" URL: Convert http://flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3430&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=oscillations+x to {{forum url|t=3430|hilit=oscillations+x}}
 +
let @b='/http.*forum^Mv/t=^Mhc{{forum url|^[llelv/hilit^Mhxi|^[/.[\n ]^[a}}^[/forum^MN'
 +
" URL: Convert http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6890 to {{forum url|t=6890}}.
 +
let @v='/http.*forum^Mi{{forum url|^[lv/t=^Mhxllea}}^[/forum^MN'
 +
" URL: Convert http://flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3085&p=28982#p28982 to {{forum url|p=28982}}.
 +
let @x='/http.*forum^Mv/#^Mc{{forum url|^[la=^[ea}}^[/forum^MN'
 +
" URL: Convert http://flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5814&p=44566 to {{forum url|p=44566}}.
 +
let @y='/http.*forum^Mv/p=^Mhc{{forum url|^[llea}}^[/forum^MN'
  
:--[[User:August|August]] ([[User talk:August|talk]]) 22:18, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
+
" Member: Convert [http://www.flightgear.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=510 Gijs] to {{forum list|type=member|u=510|text=Gijs}}.
 +
let @m='/[http.*forum^Mv/member^Mhc{{forum link|type=^[/list^[v/u=^Mhc|^[/ ^[xi|text=^[/]^Mvc}}^[/forum^MN'
  
== Conventions on discussion conclusions ==
+
" Search: Convert [http://www.flightgear.org/forums/search.php?st=0&amp;sk=t&amp;sd=d&amp;sr=posts&amp;keywords=head+tracking head tracking] to {{forum list|type=search|keywords=head+tracking|text=head tracking}}.
Sometimes proposals don't get the attention the proposer might have hoped for. Of course, everyone's involved in their projects, and following discussions in "recent changes" isn't easy, so nothing personal, my question is ''very practical''.  
+
let @a='/[http.*forum^Mv/search^Mhc{{forum link|type=^[/.php^[v/keywords=^Mhc|^[/ ^[xi|text=^[/]^Mvc}}^[/forum^MN'
 +
</syntaxhighlight>
  
Sometimes these proposals need help from others (like my [[User_talk:Bigstones/Essay:A plan for a reorganization of the wiki#Bot proposal .28request.3F.29|"remove redundant categories"]]) so it's pretty clear that one will have to wait and retry/insist for that. Some other times though (like my above "Category:Support" topic - with which btw I did some mess moving messages around) one could easily continue on his/her own. In such cases, I feel that lack/loss of attention means "Ok, I don't mind if you do that, in case, we'll discuss the results" (like for the FAQ update - btw, thanks to the reviewers of [http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?title=Frequently_asked_questions&oldid=71015 my cuts]). If this is correct, I'd like to add it to the [[Help:Maintenance]] page, because it could help getting more things done and avoid misunderstandings. Oh, and by what I said, if I don't get answers, I'll take it for granted :D
+
The <code>^[</code> and <code>^M</code> characters have to be converted into the escape and enter escape sequences for this to work (using e.g. {{key press|i}}, {{key press|ctrl|v}}, {{key press|esc}}, {{key press|esc}} and {{key press|i}}, {{key press|ctrl|v}}, {{key press|enter}}, {{key press|esc}}).  These handle the <code>forum.flightgear.org</code> hard links as well, but only cover maybe 90% of all hard links. One link that often needs manual intervention is when ''start=X'' is in the URL. This requires following the link, finding the post number, and then supplying the {{param|p}} parameter, which is absent from the original URL, to the templates.
  
--[[User:Bigstones|Bigstones]] ([[User talk:Bigstones|talk]]) 12:43, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
+
'''Roadmap:'''  Once all the <code>http</code> links are converted, all links will be present in the <code>https</code> search.  Then the {{tl|project infrastructure}} template can be modified to produce <code>http</code> forum URLs rather than <code>https</code>.  This will cause only the unconverted <code>https</code> links in be present in the <code>https</code> search.
  
: I have found the lack of feedback to be discouraging at times, but at other times I have just went ahead and done things the way I would like to have them done, like for example my reorganisation and extension of the help pages, as well as adding the "[[FlightGear wiki:Village pump|Discuss!]]" link to the left side menu.
+
[[User:Bugman|Bugman]] ([[User talk:Bugman|talk]]) 04:19, 11 June 2019 (EDT)
  
: I would guess that you draw the right conclusion with the statement that "Ok, I don't mind if you do that, in case, we'll discuss the results". The very most of the times that is the way to go. The good thing with a wiki is that it is so easy to revert a change (i.e "View history" tab &rarr; Go to topmost edit &rarr; Click the "undo" link). If if things go really wrong most things can be salvaged from the page history (though it can be a lot of work at times). ;-)
+
: Here is a test of the http to https switch.  Before the switch:
 +
:* <code><nowiki>http://forum.flightgear.org</nowiki></code>: [http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&limit=5000&offset=0&target=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.flightgear.org 1,914 hits].
 +
:* <code><nowiki>https://forum.flightgear.org</nowiki></code>: [http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&limit=5000&offset=0&target=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.flightgear.org 3,060 hits].
 +
:* <code><nowiki>http://flightgear.org/forums</nowiki></code>: [http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&limit=500&offset=0&target=http%3A%2F%2Fflightgear.org%2Fforums 0 hits]
 +
:* <code><nowiki>https://flightgear.org/forums</nowiki></code>: [http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&limit=500&offset=0&target=https%3A%2F%2Fflightgear.org%2Fforums 0 hits]
  
: —[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 17:03, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
+
: And after the switch:
 +
:* <code><nowiki>http://forum.flightgear.org</nowiki></code>: [http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&limit=5000&offset=0&target=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.flightgear.org 4,127 hits].
 +
:* <code><nowiki>https://forum.flightgear.org</nowiki></code>: [http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&limit=5000&offset=0&target=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.flightgear.org 835 hits].
 +
:* <code><nowiki>http://flightgear.org/forums</nowiki></code>: [http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&limit=500&offset=0&target=http%3A%2F%2Fflightgear.org%2Fforums 0 hits]
 +
:* <code><nowiki>https://flightgear.org/forums</nowiki></code>: [http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&limit=500&offset=0&target=https%3A%2F%2Fflightgear.org%2Fforums 0 hits]
  
== Editing JavaScript files ? ==
+
: So there are 1914 <code>http://</code> and 835 <code>https://</code> forum hard links still to convert!
  
: ''Moved here from [[Talk:Portal:Wiki#Editing JavaScript files ?]] ([http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?title=Talk:Portal:Wiki&oldid=72290 permalink]) since this might affect all users.''
+
: [[User:Bugman|Bugman]] ([[User talk:Bugman|talk]]) 09:42, 2 July 2019 (EDT)
  
I think, at some point, I saw someone editing JavaScript files here (Johan_G or Gijs probably) - what is involved to do that ? Any links/pointers ? Okay, found something at [[MediaWiki:Common.js]] Is it also possible to create custom JS/plain text files without any wiki markup ? Are my privileges even sufficient ? --[[User:Hooray|Hooray]] ([[User talk:Hooray|talk]]) 21:11, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
+
== Language flags on the main page ==
  
: Nope, was not me.  Javascript files is as far as I know currently limited to [[MediaWiki:Common.js]].  It is apparently possible to change some settings so that one can add "user javascript pages" (as well as "user Cascading Style Sheets"), see the WikiMedia Wiki pages [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgAllowUserJs Manual:$wgAllowUserJs] (and [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgAllowUserCss Manual:$wgAllowUserCss]).
+
While activating "Português do Brasil" as a new language on the wiki (via [[Special:Interwiki]]), I decided to use a generic white flag for the language on the [[main page]].  As an experiment I have added this generic flag for all translations.  It is not pretty, but it does better advertise the languages where a flag makes zero sense. Please have a look and see what you think!
  
: Both can be useful for testing stuff before including them in the "common" (i.e. site wide) files, as well as for personalizing the look, feel and functionality.  I do not know what issues they could cause or if we have the permissions to change it.  Maybe Simon and Gijs are the ones who can do it.
+
[[User:Bugman|Bugman]] ([[User talk:Bugman|talk]]) 04:35, 7 June 2019 (EDT)
  
: [[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 04:40, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
+
: I would also like to point out that it is still impossible to edit the wiki in certain languages.  See [[FlightGear wiki:Village pump/Archive 2016#UTF-8 language pages cannot be edited]].  We really need to fix this database error issue.
  
== MediaWiki updated to 1.23.0 ==
+
: [[User:Bugman|Bugman]] ([[User talk:Bugman|talk]]) 05:34, 7 June 2019 (EDT)
  
I've updated MediaWiki to the latest stable release (1.23.0) today. I'm now updating all extensions, so some things may be broken temporarily. Please report bugs if you find any. For a list of changes, see https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Release_notes/1.23
+
: Don't worry about the white flag, I've now uploaded public domain icons, taken from Wiki Commons SVG files, for all language flags. For Persian, I've used the Iranian flag. And for Arabic I've used the neutral Arab League flag. So now we have flag icons for all current translations.
  
[[User:Gijs|Gijs]] ([[User talk:Gijs|talk]]) 12:04, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
+
: [[User:Bugman|Bugman]] ([[User talk:Bugman|talk]]) 05:59, 7 June 2019 (EDT)

Latest revision as of 14:23, 12 August 2019


Archives
2012, 2013
2014, 2015
2016, 2017
2018

Shortcut
FGW:VP

Welcome to the Village Pump. This page is used to discuss the technical issues, operations and guidelines of the FlightGear wiki.

Please add new topics to the bottom of this page.

Old discussions should be moved to a FlightGear wiki:Village pump/Archive YEAR. These discussions can then be moved to a relevant talk page if appropriate.

Welcoming template

I have had a shelved draft of a welcoming template laying in a subpage for quite a while that I have dusted off and rewritten.

It has a welcoming message and some links I hope will be useful to new users (and perhaps not so new ones as well). The idea is that when some of us sees that there is a new user we will add that template to the top of the new users discussion page. I am not sure about whether we should wait till the user have made some edits (to see if it is a bot) or if we should add it at once.

I would like to have some more eyes on it to see for example if I should have some more or some less links, or if there is something I did not think of. I tried to use as few links as possible, while also keeping ones a new user might hope is there, but do not know where to look for.

When I feel content with it I will move it to the template namespace and add a site notice linking to it for a while, as I am not sure if you all look here or on Special:RecentChanges.

Anyway here is my current draft (do not hesitate to add suggestions on its discussion page): User:Johan G/Template:Welcome to the wiki

Johan G (Talk | contribs) 13:02, 15 April 2019 (EDT)

The template is now moved to {{Welcome to the wiki}}
Johan G (Talk | contribs) 18:19, 17 April 2019 (EDT)
Hi Johan,
The template looks good to me!
Gijs (talk) 06:48, 16 April 2019 (EDT)
It looks good to me too. What about using Extension:Create User Page to fully automate the process?
Bugman (talk) 09:57, 16 April 2019 (EDT)
If you mean as in automatically creating a user discussion page and adding the welcome template? Though it would probably be a good idea, as likely no one will be left without a welcome, it kind of feels better if it is done by a being of flesh and blood than if it was done by a bot. Consider me undecided. ;-)
Johan G (Talk | contribs) 18:13, 17 April 2019 (EDT)
It is a worry that the automation will not seem personal. However I just counted the new user registrations from 17/04/2018 to 17/04/2019. There are 113 registrations! Maybe 5% are not bots, but identifying these is hard. I think it will be too overwhelming for any individual to manually do this.
Bugman (talk) 01:43, 18 April 2019 (EDT)
One registration every second day. Automation might not be such a bad idea after all.
I noticed though that Extension:Create User Page does not create the user discussion page, which is where such messageboxes typically are placed. Maybe not a big problem.
Johan G (Talk | contribs) 12:46, 19 April 2019 (EDT)
A site notice is now up with the text "Hi fellow wiki users!
To help new users get more familiar with the wiki (and maybe older users too) there is now a {{Welcome to the wiki}} template. Have a look at it and feel free to add it to new users discussion pages (and perhaps your own).
I have tried to keep the template short, but meaningful. /Johan G"
Johan G (Talk | contribs) 06:13, 26 April 2019 (EDT)

I just noticed Extension:NewUserMessage which seems perfectly suited to be used the way Bugman mentioned Extension:Create User Page above on 16 April. This extension automatically creates a discussion page with a message for new users. —Johan G (Talk | contribs) 10:44, 22 June 2019 (EDT)

I think we should really use such an extension. There are just too many new user subscriptions to do this manually (and my experience from my own wiki is that 99% of subscriptions are failed bots). I say install it asap. It would really benefit real new users who might be lost under the load of failed bot registrations. Can you install it yourself Johan?
Bugman (talk) 03:50, 2 July 2019 (EDT)
No, I can not install wiki extensions (I am a wiki admin just like you). Simon, the maintainer, can for sure do it and I think that maybe Gijs could do do it.
Johan G (Talk | contribs) 10:21, 4 July 2019 (EDT)
Sent a mail to Gijs and Simon, with a copy to you.
Johan G (Talk | contribs) 12:24, 4 July 2019 (EDT)

Adding it to all user discussion pages?

I have started to wonder if we maybe should add the template to all of the user discussion pages (but not archived ones of course).

What would be the advantages and disadvantages of that. Personally I see more advantages than disadvantages with that.

This would be a bot job of course.

Johan G (Talk | contribs) 08:50, 21 June 2019 (EDT)

The lead section, or first section, as I have called it

Most of the time when I have been writing help pages I have tried to use the terminology used on Wikipedia and its sister projects, but somehow I have called the lead section (or lead or introduction) first section and done that consistently. I have gone through the help pages and changed that.

Johan G (Talk | contribs) 08:56, 23 May 2019 (EDT)


Automated translation for the wikipedia template

Just for the record, I attempted to modify {{wikipedia}} to automatically determine the page language and point to the non-english Wikipedia page without the lang parameter. I have recently added the wikipedia parameter to {{infobox aircraft}} and was hoping to use the language auto-detection to have the wikipedia infobox link point to the correct translation at Wikipedia. I could not use {{PAGELANGUAGE}} as this required MediaWiki >= 1.29 (see [1]). So I unsuccessfully attempted to use the same logic as the {{LangSwitch}} parameter. I reverted all changes as there appears to be no way to correctly detect the page language (other than wait for the next MediaWiki upgrade to expose {{PAGELANGUAGE}}).

Bugman (talk) 05:51, 24 May 2019 (EDT)

Note that this means that the aircraft infobox wikipedia link can only point to the English page until an upgrade occurs (this is not urgent though).
Bugman (talk) 06:01, 24 May 2019 (EDT)
{{lc: {{#titleparts: {{PAGENAME}} | 1}} }} should return the language code needed for the lang= parameter.
Note that you will only be able to pull this of where the article title is exactly the same in another language. If a model for example have have another name in one country (like cars sometimes have) the link will fail. If the title is transcribed the link will fail. Etc.
Johan G (Talk | contribs) 07:16, 24 May 2019 (EDT)

Expansion of the upload licence list and uploading errors

I've always been concerned that we do not present enough licence choices for the graphics uploaded to the wiki. In testing this, I've noticed that I can no longer upload graphics to the wiki! I see a red exclamation mark and the text Unknown error: "unknown", None of the uploads were successful., the button Retry failed uploads, and 0 of 1 file uploaded. Has any one else seen this?

Also, is there a reason we don't update MediaWiki:Licenses? I think I'll add the CC v4.0 licenses so those can be selected. I'll probably also add the GPL.

Bugman (talk) 04:22, 27 May 2019 (EDT)

While I have not tested uploading, according the upload log files were uploaded as recent as the 26th.
Regarding the licenses it might be a good idea to add any missing license templates.
Johan G (Talk | contribs) 08:39, 28 May 2019 (EDT)

Conversion of direct forum links and URLs to templates

I'll continue the discussions of Template talk:Forum link#Usable as replacement for cite web used for forum links? here. After much editing of {{project infrastructure}}, {{project infrastructure option}}, {{forum url}}, and {{forum link}}, I have now gone through the wiki [2] [3] and converted almost all direct links and URLs to the forum to use these new templates. I used macros in vim to simplify and semi-automate the process. There should now be almost no direct references to forum.flightgear.org left. If I have missed anything obvious please point it out to me.

Bugman (talk) 09:49, 6 June 2019 (EDT)

I've found more direct forum links and converted those. However I've also noticed that Special:Search does not reveal all instances of forum.flightgear.org or flightgear.org/forums!? Does anyone know how to hunt down every last direct link? Cheers!
Bugman (talk) 06:17, 7 June 2019 (EDT)
That was huge amount of work. Side note: In disbelief I looked at some of the edits where using the template decreased the article size by several kilobytes.
There is a special page for looking for external links, Special:LinkSearch, that might be useful. Unfortunately it only looks for the domain, so you will have to sift though the results for the relevant hits. (External link search for "*.flightgear.org".)
Johan G (Talk | contribs) 10:19, 7 June 2019 (EDT)
Those articles with big diffs were usually the poor-quality articles pumped full of {{cite web}} text. I used vim macros to quickly convert them, but had to manually check every change to be sure as there were some issues.
I'd completely forgotten about Special:LinkSearch. I had used that previously to convert all repository links to convert the entire wiki to use the Category:Repository link templates template family. I now see that the forum link conversion is a much, much, much bigger job! I currently see:
Unfortunately in converting all the direct links I found via the normal search, I know that we won't be able to automate/script this. There are far too many different ways these forum links are presented. For example a link ending with the anchor #p1234 or simply having p=1234 in the URL can have all other elements (t, f, sid, etc.) removed and drop to simply {{forum link|p=1234}}, with either the text or title parameters specified as needed. Some forum links are unnecessarily long. A link to a post only needs p, a link to a topic only t and a link to a subforum only f. The exception being hilit. However hilit is often present in the URL without any keywords. Then there is also a mix of using = and {{=}} in the URLs. And it is not always completely obvious if {{forum url}} or {{forum link}} should be used. The only regularity is in the {{cite web}} usage, but that also appears to have 3 or 4 forms that have evolved over time.
Bugman (talk) 11:28, 7 June 2019 (EDT)

Update

I've eliminated all flightgear.org/forums hard links on the wiki to use {{forum url}} and {{forum link}}. The numbers are now:

For reference, here are my vim macros. These are placed into the ~/.vimrc file:

" --- FlightGear forum conversions ---
" Link: Convert [http://www.flightgear.org/forums forums] to {{forum link|text=forums}}.
let @f='/[http.*forum^Mv/ ^Mc{{forum link|text=^[/]^Mvc}}^[/forum^MN'
" Link: Convert [http://flightgear.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=13 section of our forum] to {{forum link|f=13|text=section of our forum}}.
let @g='/[http.*forum^Mv/f=^Mhc{{forum link|^[/ ^Mvc|text=^[/]^Mvc}}^[/forum^MN'
" Link: Convert [http://flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7485#p102005] to {{forum link|p=102005}}.
let @p='/[http.*forum^Mv/#^Mc{{forum link|^[la=^[/]^Mvc}}^[/forum^MN'
" Link: Convert [http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14254 thread] to {{forum link|t=14254|text=thread}}.
let @t='/[http.*forum^Mv/t=^Mhc{{forum link|^[/ ^Mvc|text=^[/]^Mvc}}^[/forum^MN'
" Link: Convert [http://flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=15267#p149971 this short essay] to {{forum link|p=149971|text=this short essay}}.
let @s='/[http.*forum^Mv/#^Mc{{forum link|^[la=^[/ ^Mvc|text=^[/]^Mvc}}^[/forum^MN'
" Link: Convert [http://flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1697&p=12549 ARINC] to {{forum link|p=12549|text=ARINC}}.
let @r='/[http.*forum^Mv/p=^Mhc{{forum link|^[/ ^Mvc|text=^[/]^Mvc}}^[/forum^MN'
" Link: Convert [http://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=22840] to {{forum link|t=22840}}.
let @l='/[http.*forum^Mv/t=^Mhc{{forum link|^[/]^Mvc}}^[/forum^MN'
" Link: Convert [http://flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10488&p=144233&hilit=snapshot#p144233 at the forum] to {{forum link|hilit=snapshot|p=144233|text=at the forum}}.
let @i='/[http.*forum^Mv/hilit^Mhc{{forum link|^[/#^Mxi|^[la=^[/ ^[vc|text=^[/]^Mvc}}^[/forum^MN'
" Link: Convert [http://flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=20214&p=186020&hilit=xml+french#p185963] to {{forum link|hilit=xml+french|p=185963}}.
let @j='/[http.*forum^Mv/hilit^Mhc{{forum link|^[/#^Mxi|^[la=^[/]^Mvc}}^[/forum^MN'

" URL: Convert http://flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14758 to {{forum url|t=14758}}.
let @w='/http.*forum^Mv/t=^Mhc{{forum url|^[llea}}^[/forum^MN'
" URL: Convert http://flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2766&p=26459&hilit=generic+protocol#p26459 to {{forum url|hilit=generic+protocol|p=26459}}.
let @h='/http.*forum^Mv/hilit^Mhc{{forum url|^[/#^Mxi|^[la=^[ea}}^[/forum^MN'
" URL: Convert http://flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3430&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=oscillations+x to {{forum url|t=3430|hilit=oscillations+x}}
let @b='/http.*forum^Mv/t=^Mhc{{forum url|^[llelv/hilit^Mhxi|^[/.[\n ]^[a}}^[/forum^MN'
" URL: Convert http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6890 to {{forum url|t=6890}}.
let @v='/http.*forum^Mi{{forum url|^[lv/t=^Mhxllea}}^[/forum^MN'
" URL: Convert http://flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3085&p=28982#p28982 to {{forum url|p=28982}}.
let @x='/http.*forum^Mv/#^Mc{{forum url|^[la=^[ea}}^[/forum^MN'
" URL: Convert http://flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5814&p=44566 to {{forum url|p=44566}}.
let @y='/http.*forum^Mv/p=^Mhc{{forum url|^[llea}}^[/forum^MN'

" Member: Convert [http://www.flightgear.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=510 Gijs] to {{forum list|type=member|u=510|text=Gijs}}.
let @m='/[http.*forum^Mv/member^Mhc{{forum link|type=^[/list^[v/u=^Mhc|^[/ ^[xi|text=^[/]^Mvc}}^[/forum^MN'

" Search: Convert [http://www.flightgear.org/forums/search.php?st=0&amp;sk=t&amp;sd=d&amp;sr=posts&amp;keywords=head+tracking head tracking] to {{forum list|type=search|keywords=head+tracking|text=head tracking}}.
let @a='/[http.*forum^Mv/search^Mhc{{forum link|type=^[/.php^[v/keywords=^Mhc|^[/ ^[xi|text=^[/]^Mvc}}^[/forum^MN'

The ^[ and ^M characters have to be converted into the escape and enter escape sequences for this to work (using e.g. i, ctrl+v, esc, esc and i, ctrl+v, Enter, esc). These handle the forum.flightgear.org hard links as well, but only cover maybe 90% of all hard links. One link that often needs manual intervention is when start=X is in the URL. This requires following the link, finding the post number, and then supplying the p parameter, which is absent from the original URL, to the templates.

Roadmap: Once all the http links are converted, all links will be present in the https search. Then the {{project infrastructure}} template can be modified to produce http forum URLs rather than https. This will cause only the unconverted https links in be present in the https search.

Bugman (talk) 04:19, 11 June 2019 (EDT)

Here is a test of the http to https switch. Before the switch:
And after the switch:
  • http://forum.flightgear.org: 4,127 hits.
  • https://forum.flightgear.org: 835 hits.
  • http://flightgear.org/forums: 0 hits
  • https://flightgear.org/forums: 0 hits
So there are 1914 http:// and 835 https:// forum hard links still to convert!
Bugman (talk) 09:42, 2 July 2019 (EDT)

Language flags on the main page

While activating "Português do Brasil" as a new language on the wiki (via Special:Interwiki), I decided to use a generic white flag for the language on the main page. As an experiment I have added this generic flag for all translations. It is not pretty, but it does better advertise the languages where a flag makes zero sense. Please have a look and see what you think!

Bugman (talk) 04:35, 7 June 2019 (EDT)

I would also like to point out that it is still impossible to edit the wiki in certain languages. See FlightGear wiki:Village pump/Archive 2016#UTF-8 language pages cannot be edited. We really need to fix this database error issue.
Bugman (talk) 05:34, 7 June 2019 (EDT)
Don't worry about the white flag, I've now uploaded public domain icons, taken from Wiki Commons SVG files, for all language flags. For Persian, I've used the Iranian flag. And for Arabic I've used the neutral Arab League flag. So now we have flag icons for all current translations.
Bugman (talk) 05:59, 7 June 2019 (EDT)