Difference between revisions of "FlightGear wiki:Village pump"

From FlightGear wiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search
 
(364 intermediate revisions by 21 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
{{Archives|[[/Archive 2012|2012]], [[/Archive 2013|2013]]}}
+
{{Archives|[[/Archive 2012|2012]]|[[/Archive 2013|2013]]|[[/Archive 2014|2014]]|[[/Archive 2015|2015]]|[[/Archive 2016|2016]]|[[/Archive 2017|2017]]|[[/Archive 2018|2018]]|[[/Archive 2019|2019]]|[[/Archive 2020|2020]]}}
 +
{{shortcut|FGW:VP}}
 +
 
 
Welcome to the '''Village Pump'''. This page is used to discuss the technical issues, operations and guidelines of the [[FlightGear wiki]].
 
Welcome to the '''Village Pump'''. This page is used to discuss the technical issues, operations and guidelines of the [[FlightGear wiki]].
  
: Please [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} add new topics] to the '''bottom''' of this page.
+
Please <span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} add new topics]</span> to the '''bottom''' of this page.
 
 
: Old discussion should be moved to a [[FlightGear wiki:Village pump/Archive YEAR]]. These discussions can then be moved to a relevant talk page if appropriate.
 
 
 
----
 
 
 
== MediaWiki updated to 1.22.0 ==
 
I've updated MediaWiki to the latest stable, 1.22.0 today. Please report bugs if you find any. For a list of changes, see https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Release_notes/1.22
 
 
 
[[User:Gijs|Gijs]] ([[User talk:Gijs|talk]]) 15:00, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
=== Found bugs ===
 
* Clicking the category link at the bottom of some articles will give a fatal error.  For clicking the [[:Category:FlightGear]] at [[FlightGear]] will give the error message: ''Fatal error: Class 'Services_JSON' not found in /home/wiki/wiki/extensions/CategoryTree/CategoryTreeFunctions.php on line 224''.
 
: —[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 03:44, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
 
:: The CategoryTree extension relies on a function that was removed as of 1.22.0, so the extensions needs some fixing. I've disabled it for now.
 
:: [[User:Gijs|Gijs]] ([[User talk:Gijs|talk]]) 13:01, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
 
::: Yay, CategoryTree is back.  Thanks Gijs!
 
::: —[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 19:50, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
 
 
 
* Also, the mobile theme results in an error: ''Fatal error: Call to undefined method MobileFormatter::setHtmlMode() in /home/wiki/wiki/extensions/MobileFrontend/includes/MobileFormatter.php on line 62'' (works fine after selecting desktop mode).
 
: Thanks,
 
: [[User:Philosopher|—Philosopher]] ([[User talk:Philosopher|talk]]) 03:59, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
 
:: I forgot to update the mobile extension. Works again ;-)
 
:: [[User:Gijs|Gijs]] ([[User talk:Gijs|talk]]) 13:01, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
* In the CategoryTree the FlightGear category [[:Category:Documentation|appears empty]]. The solution is reported at [[mw:Extension:CategoryTree#Member counts are wrong, gray arrows ► are shown instead of ►]]. It's a minor problem but the solution looks easy, for what I can tell.
 
: --[[User:Bigstones|Bigstones]] ([[User talk:Bigstones|talk]]) 00:27, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: Unfortunately that doesn't seem to help...
 
:: [[User:Gijs|Gijs]] ([[User talk:Gijs|talk]]) 11:11, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Got any ideas for a better name for this page? ==
 
As this is for this page in particular, see the [[FlightGear wiki talk:Village pump#Any ideas for a better name|talk page]].
 
 
 
—[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 15:44, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Template for announcement of changes and new features ==
 
 
 
From a forum PM from Hooray (posted here with his permission):
 
 
 
<div style="background: #fafaf0; padding: 1em;">
 
hi, whenever we announce a new feature, we typically need to do this in three places:
 
 
 
* newsletter
 
* changelog
 
* the docs (corresponding wiki articles)
 
 
 
so far, we have always copied & pasted things, I would prefer to have a single template for this instead, something like
 
{{tlx|Announce|version|description}}
 
 
 
This could add announcements to each release cycle (i.e. 3.2 currently), and we could maybe automatically add things to the newsletter and the release changelog.
 
 
 
Like I said, I would like to avoid redundant efforts, i.e. less copy & paste
 
 
 
Do you have any ideas on how to implement this using existing wiki means ?
 
 
 
Ideally, we would create a new announcement, like for example "canvas mouse button support", and could then use this announcement in all 3 places by calling the corresponding template.
 
 
 
 
 
Thanks
 
</div>
 
My take is that to use a separate template for each new feature is not a good idea, but if I understand him correctly his intention is to gather up each months new features in one template.
 
 
 
Any thoughts on this?
 
 
 
—[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 17:14, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
 
 
 
{{WIP}}
 
 
 
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-left: 1.5em;">I am thinking of restructuring the way we're writing our newsletter by focusing on our "ugly stepchild", namely the "changelog" - as others like Torsten have pointed out, we should ideally be writing the changelog as early as possible - but the truth is, it's mostly forum people contributing to it, and it's not seen too many edits. The newsletter is working a bit better for us. So I was thinking of how to unify both worlds - especially keeping in mind that our changelog encompasses basically 6 months, i.e. 6 newsletter editions.
 
 
 
So I am considering to split up our newsletter into a handful of building blocks and use a few templates, so that additions are added through a few custom templates, that would automatically add things to the changelog.
 
 
 
The changelog would then be written by contributing to the newsletter  and using the proper templates, such as e.g.:
 
 
 
{{changelog|version=3.2|category:aircraft|type=updated|announcement=The 747-400 and 777-200 have received extensive updates, and are now both using the new MapStructure-based NavDisplay framework|screenshots=|videos=}}
 
 
 
The changelog would then  be procedurally assembled by processing all templates for the corresponding release cycle.
 
 
 
I would even consider locking the changelog itself, and making it just a template that references the stuff included via templates.
 
 
 
We may however benefit from a few additional mediawiki extensions. But otherwise, I am hoping that the changelog is going to be more comprehensive, while the wiki would become more "formal" - we could obviously still support additions without using changelog-templates, i.e. those would be excluded.
 
 
 
thoughts / ideas ?
 
 
 
(CC'ing Philosopher, because he's been doing some template stuff, too)</pre>
 
 
 
 
 
:Need to come up with a template that handles announcements, primarily for the changelog and the newsletter. There's a mutual relationship here, but the newsletter is much more popular, i.e. sees more contributions and more activity overall. Changelog writing is still a chore. But basically 6 months worth of newsletters are equivalent to a single changelog, we only need to establish some framework around this - and then the whole changelog could be mostly based on newsletter contributions. It would greatly help to request people to make announcements ALWAYS using 3rd person speech, so that things can be directly copied from the forum/devel list to the newsletter/changelog. That's kinda the idea here. It would reduce our workload quite significantly
 
 
 
:* Changelog
 
:* Newsletter
 
:* Devel List
 
:* Forum
 
:* Website
 
 
 
:{{unsigned|21:25, 24 April 2014‎|Hooray}}
 
 
 
::I will probably have to take a look at this now and again to think about if and how this could be done.  I assume Hooray is aiming at having each newsletter and change log built up mostly from "instances" of a template like in the above comments.
 
 
 
::There are pros and cons with this approach, as with any.  I think that one of the cons is that even the slightest overhead and/or complication might scare away a few contributors.  But at the other hand I fully understand that reading through six months of newsletters + forum posts + devel list posts are not that fun either (though I would guess that is not how things are done ;-).
 
 
 
 
 
::''Slightly off topic'' is that I would like to see a section in the change log mentioning changes that will break backwards compatibility.  I first saw such a section, "Breaking changes", in the [https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Release_notes/1.22&oldid=848518#MediaWiki_1.22.0 change log of MedeiaWiki 1.22] when the software of this wiki was updated, and figured it would be a good idea.  This could be useful for things like for example figuring out whether FlightGear x.x can use World Scenery y.y.
 
 
 
::''Even more off topic'' I think that the wiki/newsletter/devel list/etc are rather blunt tools for keeping an up to date change log.  My gut feeling is that there are tools for that around, and even if we do not use them we might borrow some ideas from them, hopefully without bringing a lot of red tape(!).
 
 
 
::—[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 20:14, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: Interesting subject! I think going through just 6 newsletters by hand is more rewarding than coming up with complex templates that will increase the entry barrier of the newsletter and still require summarising/rewordings afterwards to fit the concise format of a changelog. Introducing a template on the wiki won't take away the forum/devel list scanning that's required as not everyone contributes to the wiki.
 
::: I do support the "breaking changes" idea though ;-)
 
::: [[User:Gijs|Gijs]] ([[User talk:Gijs|talk]]) 19:18, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Very dispersed Boeing 777 articles! ==
 
 
 
Hi, I got interested in Flightgear and was taking a look at the Boeing 777 articles and noticed that it was incredibly spread out.
 
 
 
Each aircraft has it's own page with information to varying degrees of completeness. Having a look at the A330 articles, they are much more 'aligned' and it's a lot easier to find stuff. Maybe this could be something that could be done with the Boeing.  Since both seem to be very similar, I'm thinking that there could be a common page on help and tutorials respectively, with the individual type pages catering to unique information. I started on some stuff but pretty quickly figured out it was a better idea to check here first :)
 
 
 
--[[User:Manfred|Manfred]] ([[User talk:Manfred|talk]]) 11:55, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
 
 
 
: Doing a simple search for pages containing "777" (see [http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?search=777&title=Special%3ASearch&fulltext=1 this link]) I quickly see what you mean.
 
 
 
: I assume that the different versions may have different authors and thus probably are slightly different from each other when it comes to handling and completeness.  It might be a good idea to start by going through each of the help pages and tutorials (preferably while playing with the different aircraft at the same time), as well as having a look at help dialogues and any readmes in the aircraft packages.
 
 
 
: Making a common page, while highlighting differences between the different versions, could probably help other users a lot and may perhaps be a help for aircraft developers to use features from more complete versions to improve the other ones as well as help motivate harmonizing handling like for example key bindings.
 
 
 
: If I understand your intention I can not see why anyone would do anything but trying to give you helpful hints, after all this is a wiki. :-)
 
 
 
: One hint for starters is to begin working on a page as a subpage to your user page, like for example [[User:Manfred/Boeing 777 Autopilot]] (I just moved it) and then moving it to the article namespace when you feel it has reached the level where you are comfortable with it (though this is not by any means necessary, it's just that I like doing so myself).
 
 
 
: —[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 16:40, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 
 
 
: I am interested to help, this page could be a model of what we could offer : [http://wiki.flightgear.org/Boeing_787-8_Dreamliner 777-8 Dreamliner]
 
: -- [[User:F-JYL|F-JYL]] 21 April 2014 09:32
 
 
 
== Bash and DOS syntax highlighting ==
 
 
 
[[User:Daemonburrito|Daemonburrito]] found that we can use syntax highlighting for Bash.  I guess that means that we could use syntax highlighting for most Linux (and possibly also Mac) command lines.  Looking at [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi]] I find that we also also probably can use that for DOS prompts.
 
 
 
—[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 07:24, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
 
 
 
: We've had that extension installed for a while now. Everything that's listed at [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi#Supported_languages Supported languages] is supported, plus Nasal.
 
: [[User:Gijs|Gijs]] ([[User talk:Gijs|talk]]) 11:23, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: I'm aware of the list, but was not aware that syntax highlighting could be used for shell programming (and hence shell promts) and guessed I was not alone.
 
:: Basically added the topic to highlight (pun intended) the possibility to do so.  I should probably also mention it in [[Help:Formatting#Syntax highlighting]].
 
:: —[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 13:53, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
 
 
 
== A plan for a reorganization of the wiki ==
 
 
 
There is an ongoing discussion on [[User:Bigstones/Essay:A plan for a reorganization of the wiki]]. Please comment on its talk page, to avoid scattering the discussion. This "section" is only intended to inform about it.
 
--[[User:Bigstones|Bigstones]] ([[User talk:Bigstones|talk]]) 12:53, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
 
 
 
== The new progress bar icons ==
 
 
 
I just changed icons that {{tl|progressbar}} is using and would like some constructive feedback.
 
 
 
Some things I have noted myself is that while I used a blend of the colours used in the old icons and in some of [[Special:ListFiles/Johan_G|my other icons]], these icons have a much larger coloured area and thus might have a little high contrast.
 
 
 
In any way I am going to let this rest for a week or two and follow it up then.
 
 
 
—[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 01:05, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
 
 
 
: After having made them a tiny pixel smaller (from 16 px to 15 px) and having done no other changes I seem to be liking them more and more, so I leave them in their current state.
 
: —[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 18:13, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Category:Support ==
 
As it seems that support organization is a priority, I created [[:Category:Support]]. I hope the name is generic enough to avoid misunderstandings... but I thought better to have a bad one, than nothing. I'll try to put there everything on support I find so that it can be better organized (merged/split and then cleaned up).
 
--[[User:Bigstones|Bigstones]] ([[User talk:Bigstones|talk]]) 13:06, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
 
 
 
:Hi,
 
:
 
:I didn't read through all of your ideas yet, but isn't "Support" a rather obscure term? Everything could fit under that branch, so we'll end up with yet another giant category; which you tried to prevent, right? Or maybe I'm just missing the bigger picture...
 
 
 
:[[User:Gijs|Gijs]] ([[User talk:Gijs|talk]]) 13:23, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: Hi, I figured out (''edit: led to figure out'') that support organization is a major problem. There's a lot of "support" related articles, 2-3 articles only on OpenGL. I hoped that this name could indeed be wide enough, and that in case it could just be renamed. Troubleshooting seemed to narrow to me on the other side, but if you think that would be better I can change it now (waiting for response before proceeding).--[[User:Bigstones|Bigstones]] ([[User talk:Bigstones|talk]]) 13:29, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: Take [[Settings for slower graphics cards]] for example. It's categorised under [[:Category:Performance tuning]]. I would expect that to be a sub of [[:Category:Support]]. Anyone looking for articles on how to improve performance can check that category then. I don't expect anyone to go through a very broad category with 100s of articles to find info on a rather specific subject.
 
::: Or maybe I should reword my comment into a question: What would be the use case of [[:Category:Support]]?
 
::: [[User:Gijs|Gijs]] ([[User talk:Gijs|talk]]) 13:39, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
 
::: PS: I know we have a lot of bloated categories on this wiki, so I'm glad you've brought all this back on the agenda ;-)
 
 
 
:::: With the example: I confess I was probably deceived by the presence of some development related stuff in [[:Category:Performance tuning]]. I thought it would be better to separate development and usage. Framerate is either a user issue, or a developer's aim. I think the two can be separated. The problem is I moved out the most of it! I should consider the contrary. I'll undo. (I currently have like 20 open browser tabs so it might take me some time).
 
:::: The use case however is: gather support articles so that a maintainer can split/merge them to make them more organized. Once that's done, there won't probably be more than 10 articles, and if there are, still one can subcategorize. In the above case, I just took the longest path, but given the lack of tools I confess I just wanted to get started.
 
:::: --[[User:Bigstones|Bigstones]] ([[User talk:Bigstones|talk]]) 14:00, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
 
:::: ... I must confess also that after undoing, I feel the urge to redo that again. The two non-support related articles, [[GIT Performance Tests]] and [[Howto:Use the system monitor]] (where btw, the "profiling" section might be directed to ''core'' developers?) would have no place if I move this category into support. That's also why I moved it into Development. Let me know what you think, also regarding the Support category name.
 
:::: --[[User:Bigstones|Bigstones]] ([[User talk:Bigstones|talk]]) 14:24, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
 
 
 
== FlightGear screenshot categories ==
 
 
 
I have been thinking about this for quite a while.  When I was categorising the images, I gave the categories with the FlightGear screenshots quite cumbersome and long names.
 
 
 
I guess the discussions with Bigstones, in particular [http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Bigstones/Essay:A_plan_for_a_reorganization_of_the_wiki&diff=70678&oldid=70675 my reply here] (see second paragraph under 2.) might have stirred up some old dust for me. :-)
 
 
 
The cumbersome and long names has a couple negative effects.  Firstly they are way longer to type than should be necessary, secondly, and more important I think, the probability that they show up in the upload wizard probably is rather low as they all begin with "FlightGear..." (what was I thinking, like if someone would upload a bunch of X-Plane screenshots here).  I ''guess'' that by beginning most if not all screenshot category names with "Screenshots of..." the chances they would be used will increase.
 
 
 
In addition to that some of those categories are way too large and need to be diffused (broken down into smaller categories).
 
 
 
I have noted that a lot of aircraft images have been added to the aircraft article categories.  I would prefer if the screenshot categories associated with different kinds of aircraft (e.g. fighters or airliners) would be subcategories to the screenshot categories ''and'' that those screenshot categories would be a subcategory to the category for those kinds of aircraft.  I have at some point started to try mimic the structure of [[:Category:Aircraft by type]] in [[:Category:FlightGear screenshots of aircraft by type]], but got distracted or forgot about it for a while.  Someting similar might be needed for the cockpit screenshots.
 
 
 
The note about intended contents should also mention that these categories are intended only for in-sim screenshots from FlightGear.
 
 
 
In conclusion I suggest, and would like feedback on, the following:
 
 
 
{| class="wikitable"
 
! Current category !! Suggested new category !! Alternative new category !! Comment
 
|-
 
| [[:Category:FlightGear cockpit screenshots‎]] || [[:Category:Screenshots of cockpits]] || Cockpit screenshots ||
 
|-
 
| [[:Category:FlightGear cockpit close-up screenshots‎]] || [[:Category:Screenshots of cockpit details]] || Cockpit close-up screenshots ||
 
|-
 
| [[:Category:FlightGear dialogue screenshots‎]]
 
| <s>Category:Screenshots of ‎dialogues</s>
 
 
 
[[:Category:Screenshots of dialogs in FlightGear‎]]
 
| <s>Dialogue</s> dialog box screenshots ||
 
|-
 
| [[:Category:FlightGear exterior screenshots]]‎ || [[:Category:Screenshots of aircraft]] || Exterior screenshots ||
 
|-
 
| [[:Category:FlightGear interior screenshots]] || [[:Category:Screenshots of cabins]] || Cabin screenshots ||
 
|-
 
| [[:Category:FlightGear scenery screenshots]]‎ || [[:Category:Screenshots of scenery]] || Scenery screenshots ||
 
|-
 
| Category:FlightGear screenshots of aircraft by type || [[:Category:Screenshots of aircraft by type]] || &mdash; || Should only contain categories
 
|-
 
| [[:Category:FlightGear screenshots of vehicles]] || [[:Category:Screenshots of vehicles]] || Vehicle screenshots ||
 
|-
 
| [[:Category:FlightGear weather screenshots]]‎ || [[:Category:Screenshots of weather]] || Weather screenshots ||
 
|}
 
 
 
In essence it is a huge bot job, except for the diffusion of the largest screenshot categories.
 
 
 
—[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 15:57, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
 
 
 
: As I might have said already, I'm ok with it and in particular I agree that images would be easier to find if in their own branch. The only thing, I think it's not going to last if the upload wizard doesn't enforce the use of a subcat of "Files", or at least, suggests that area in some handy way (i.e. not a written notice). Maybe the CategoryTree could be included (like with templates) to help finding the right category? It's hard to figure out a good one by typing characters one by one.
 
: --[[User:Bigstones|Bigstones]] ([[User talk:Bigstones|talk]]) 21:49, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: Created the category pages as above, except for Category:Screenshots of ‎dialogues, which I found a bit ambiguous.  I named that one Category:Screenshots of dialogues in FlightGear‎ instead.
 
:: I have also added a request at the [[User talk:BotFlightGear#FlightGear screenshot categories|bot talk page]] ([http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?title=User_talk:BotFlightGear&oldid=71130#FlightGear_screenshot_categories permalink])
 
:: —[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 17:59, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
 
  
::: Did the move to [[:Category:Screenshots of aircraft by type]] by hand. Was only a few files.
+
Old discussions should be moved to a [[FlightGear wiki:Village pump/Archive YEAR]]. These discussions can then be moved to a relevant talk page if appropriate.
::: —[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 18:46, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
 
  
::: I hope I'm not late, I noticed only now, but ''dialogue'' tends to be used more as in "discussion between two", while the GUI elements are usually spelled ''dialogs''. I guess that more than real confusion this distinction would cause just minor hilarity, but... you never know, you might find in there screenshots of radio chat with ATC. (being not a native english speaker, [http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/59640/what-is-the-difference-between-dialogue-and-dialog here's my ref.]) --[[User:Bigstones|Bigstones]] ([[User talk:Bigstones|talk]]) 19:20, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
+
== MediaWiki updated to 1.35.1 ==
 +
Hi all,
  
:::: Well spotted, good reference as well and most important not too late. Thank you!  I was wondering a bit but guessed that dialog was more or less colloquial as dialogue seemed correct with both my browsers English and American English dictionaries.  Swedish schools teaching (very!) British English probably have something to do with my spelling as well.
+
We've just updated MediaWiki (our wiki software) to version 1.35.1. The update comes with a couple of nice new features, such as [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:VisualEditor a visual editor] that considerably lowers the entry barrier (no need to learn wiki markup!). We've also fixed the issue that prevented users from [[FlightGear_wiki:Village_pump/Archive_2020#UTF-8_language_pages_cannot_be_edited_.28cont._from_2015.29|editing certain non-Latin articles]] and enabled TLS so your connection is now secured with HTTPS.
:::: Changed the request on the [[User talk:BotFlightGear#FlightGear screenshot categories|bot page]] from Category:Screenshots of dialogues in FlightGear‎ to  [[:Category:Screenshots of dialogs in FlightGear‎]].
 
:::: —[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 14:06, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
 
  
=== Having separate image categories or not? ===
+
Although we've tested the update, chances are that we've missed certain scenarios. Please let me know if something isn't working as expected.
One thing that keeps nagging me is that all Wikipedias I have been able to read and some I can hardly read (English, Swedish + German and French) have separate categories for files/images.  There is probably a reason for that (I am guessing at mainly ease of finding images for articles and possibly also for bandwidth reasons).
 
  
The upload wizard is borrowed from Wikimedia Commons <small>(but is it properly attributed?)</small> where pretty much all categories are for files/images.  While I am not aware of its technical details I see few if any efficient ways it could be modified to only or primarily suggest image categories.  As I see it it would require a ''fresh and updated'' list of categories that in one way or another would require some manual intervention.
+
Cheers,
  
Two things I have done so far is to re-categorize images and that I have begun trying to link the nodes to the nodes in the branch with the article categories by putting the image categories in the article categories (this is done on a very small scale though).
+
[[User:Gijs|Gijs]] ([[User talk:Gijs|talk]]) 16:59, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
  
Questions is though: What is in the best interest of the users?  Should I keep on having them separate or should I just let it grow wild(er)?  It could be an interesting experiment though it would require a lot of work if it turns out less favourable.
+
PS: Now that we're back in sync, you may expect more frequent updates again.
  
—[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 22:02, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
+
: The only issues I have noted so far is that
 +
:* It seems the visual editor, when editing discussion pages, can only be used when adding a new topic, but not when editing an existing one.
 +
:* Section editing is off by default (though I think it might have been previously as well).
 +
: —[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 15:45, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
  
 +
:: Hi Johan,
 +
::* I believe that's the way they've designed it (it also works like that on Wikipedia), but I'll see if that can be changed.
 +
::* What do you mean with "section editing"? I can see <code>[ edit | edit source ]</code> links at each section title?
 +
:: [[User:Gijs|Gijs]] ([[User talk:Gijs|talk]]) 15:57, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
  
:I saw you implementing this at some of my airport screen-shots and immediately adopted it on other images. I think your idea of separating those categories would help us puting a link at the end of each article which says: "Media about :XY". Thats why I think all the other wikis provide separated categories. That's the only way to get linkable categories which only contain media.
+
::: Section editing was off by default for me after the update (at least when looking in the preferences; I did open the preferences before I went through any articles).
 +
::: —[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 10:33, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
  
:--[[User:August|August]] ([[User talk:August|talk]]) 22:18, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
+
: Thank you very much!  The 6 year old UTF-8 bug is finally gone!!  Everything else is looking good to me.  No strange Scribuntu/lua errors from the infoboxes, SyntaxHighlight works, collapsible boxes work.  Great job!
  
== Conventions on discussion conclusions ==
+
: I did get one error: "Error contacting the Parsoid/RESTBase server: http-bad-status" when trying to edit.  This was triggered by switching from the visual editor to the source editor using the menu bar that appears in the visual editor. But I fixed this by turning off the visual editor in my preferences.
Sometimes proposals don't get the attention the proposer might have hoped for. Of course, everyone's involved in their projects, and following discussions in "recent changes" isn't easy, so nothing personal, my question is ''very practical''.  
 
  
Sometimes these proposals need help from others (like my [[User_talk:Bigstones/Essay:A plan for a reorganization of the wiki#Bot proposal .28request.3F.29|"remove redundant categories"]]) so it's pretty clear that one will have to wait and retry/insist for that. Some other times though (like my above "Category:Support" topic - with which btw I did some mess moving messages around) one could easily continue on his/her own. In such cases, I feel that lack/loss of attention means "Ok, I don't mind if you do that, in case, we'll discuss the results" (like for the FAQ update - btw, thanks to the reviewers of [http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?title=Frequently_asked_questions&oldid=71015 my cuts]). If this is correct, I'd like to add it to the [[Help:Maintenance]] page, because it could help getting more things done and avoid misunderstandings. Oh, and by what I said, if I don't get answers, I'll take it for granted :D
+
: [[User:Bugman|Bugman]] ([[User talk:Bugman|talk]]) 21:12, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
  
--[[User:Bigstones|Bigstones]] ([[User talk:Bigstones|talk]]) 12:43, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
+
:: Hm, I cannot reproduce that here. Did it happen at a specific page? Can you try to reproduce it and provide a recipe?
 +
::[[User:Gijs|Gijs]] ([[User talk:Gijs|talk]]) 10:37, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
  
: I have found the lack of feedback to be discouraging at times, but at other times I have just went ahead and done things the way I would like to have them done, like for example my reorganisation and extension of the help pages, as well as adding the "[[FlightGear wiki:Village pump|Discuss!]]" link to the left side menu.
+
: Oh, just one thing if this is possible, can we have a [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgFavicon favicon] set like the forum and the [https://flightgear.org main website]?
  
: I would guess that you draw the right conclusion with the statement that "Ok, I don't mind if you do that, in case, we'll discuss the results".  The very most of the times that is the way to go.  The good thing with a wiki is that it is so easy to revert a change (i.e "View history" tab &rarr; Go to topmost edit &rarr; Click the "undo" link).  If if things go really wrong most things can be salvaged from the page history (though it can be a lot of work at times). ;-)
+
: [[User:Bugman|Bugman]] ([[User talk:Bugman|talk]]) 21:23, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
  
: [[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 17:03, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
+
:: Good one, done!
 +
:: [[User:Gijs|Gijs]] ([[User talk:Gijs|talk]]) 10:37, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
  
== Editing JavaScript files ? ==
+
== Parameter listings in template documentation ==
 +
I noted that the skeleton examples with all parameters have been removed in some cases.
  
: ''Moved here from [[Talk:Portal:Wiki#Editing JavaScript files ?]] ([http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?title=Talk:Portal:Wiki&oldid=72290 permalink]) since this might affect all users.''
+
I very much prefer to still having a copyable skeleton template (with prefilled month, year, and/or date when those parameters exist) before the listing of parameters, rather than having to copy a fully filled out filled out example and remove everything I do not need or have to change. It feels very unnecessary.
  
I think, at some point, I saw someone editing JavaScript files here (Johan_G or Gijs probably) - what is involved to do that ? Any links/pointers ? Okay, found something at [[MediaWiki:Common.js]] Is it also possible to create custom JS/plain text files without any wiki markup ? Are my privileges even sufficient ? --[[User:Hooray|Hooray]] ([[User talk:Hooray|talk]]) 21:11, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
+
On the other hand I do like the template data stuff very much, even though it is few extra steps.
  
: Nope, was not me.  Javascript files is as far as I know currently limited to [[MediaWiki:Common.js]].  It is apparently possible to change some settings so that one can add "user javascript pages" (as well as "user Cascading Style Sheets"), see the WikiMedia Wiki pages [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgAllowUserJs Manual:$wgAllowUserJs] (and [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgAllowUserCss Manual:$wgAllowUserCss]).
+
[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 11:41, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
  
: Both can be useful for testing stuff before including them in the "common" (i.e. site wide) files, as well as for personalizing the look, feel and functionality. I do not know what issues they could cause or if we have the permissions to change it. Maybe Simon and Gijs are the ones who can do it.
+
: Hi Johan,
 +
: I'm not sure if you know this, but you can now add templates through the VisualEditor. If you press "Insert > Template" from the toolbar, you get a nice popup to help you fill in the template and it can also pre-fill stuff for you (e.g., the date in [[:Template:Delete]]). The templatedata stuff on the template page is used to expand this popup form and drive the auto-fill, so most templates will not yet leverage it to the fullest. You can add/edit templatedata by clicking the "Manage TemplateData" button at the top of the edit page of templates. See the documentation at {{mediawiki|Help:TemplateData}} (that page is unfortunately quite messy, I know) and {{mediawiki|Extension:TemplateData}}.  
 +
: I feel like we should encourage people as much as possible to use the VisualEditor, as it can help prevent mistakes or incomplete templates. Would this remove the need to have copy & pastable templates? Maybe we'll just have to try and see. There's lots of new stuff to discover and tweak :-)
 +
: [[User:Gijs|Gijs]] ([[User talk:Gijs|talk]]) 10:20, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
  
: —[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 04:40, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
+
== Removing the "Goal" heading from template documentation ==
 +
As we will likely go through and edit most of the template documentation to replace the current documentation of template parameters with template data, I would like to also remove the ''Goal'' heading from the template documentation and move that up to being a regular lead section.
  
== MediaWiki updated to 1.23.0 ==
+
I feel that the heading is largely redundant and have previously stuck to it mostly for consistency.
  
I've updated MediaWiki to the latest stable release (1.23.0) today. I'm now updating all extensions, so some things may be broken temporarily. Please report bugs if you find any. For a list of changes, see https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Release_notes/1.23
+
—[[User:Johan G|Johan G]] ([[User_talk:Johan_G|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Johan_G|contribs]]) 11:48, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
  
[[User:Gijs|Gijs]] ([[User talk:Gijs|talk]]) 12:04, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
+
: Agree!
 +
: [[User:Gijs|Gijs]] ([[User talk:Gijs|talk]]) 10:20, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 10:37, 18 February 2021


Archives
2012, 2013
2014, 2015
2016, 2017
2018, 2019
2020

Shortcut
FGW:VP

Welcome to the Village Pump. This page is used to discuss the technical issues, operations and guidelines of the FlightGear wiki.

Please add new topics to the bottom of this page.

Old discussions should be moved to a FlightGear wiki:Village pump/Archive YEAR. These discussions can then be moved to a relevant talk page if appropriate.

MediaWiki updated to 1.35.1

Hi all,

We've just updated MediaWiki (our wiki software) to version 1.35.1. The update comes with a couple of nice new features, such as a visual editor that considerably lowers the entry barrier (no need to learn wiki markup!). We've also fixed the issue that prevented users from editing certain non-Latin articles and enabled TLS so your connection is now secured with HTTPS.

Although we've tested the update, chances are that we've missed certain scenarios. Please let me know if something isn't working as expected.

Cheers,

Gijs (talk) 16:59, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

PS: Now that we're back in sync, you may expect more frequent updates again.

The only issues I have noted so far is that
  • It seems the visual editor, when editing discussion pages, can only be used when adding a new topic, but not when editing an existing one.
  • Section editing is off by default (though I think it might have been previously as well).
Johan G (Talk | contribs) 15:45, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
Hi Johan,
  • I believe that's the way they've designed it (it also works like that on Wikipedia), but I'll see if that can be changed.
  • What do you mean with "section editing"? I can see [ edit | edit source ] links at each section title?
Gijs (talk) 15:57, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
Section editing was off by default for me after the update (at least when looking in the preferences; I did open the preferences before I went through any articles).
Johan G (Talk | contribs) 10:33, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
Thank you very much! The 6 year old UTF-8 bug is finally gone!! Everything else is looking good to me. No strange Scribuntu/lua errors from the infoboxes, SyntaxHighlight works, collapsible boxes work. Great job!
I did get one error: "Error contacting the Parsoid/RESTBase server: http-bad-status" when trying to edit. This was triggered by switching from the visual editor to the source editor using the menu bar that appears in the visual editor. But I fixed this by turning off the visual editor in my preferences.
Bugman (talk) 21:12, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
Hm, I cannot reproduce that here. Did it happen at a specific page? Can you try to reproduce it and provide a recipe?
Gijs (talk) 10:37, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
Oh, just one thing if this is possible, can we have a favicon set like the forum and the main website?
Bugman (talk) 21:23, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
Good one, done!
Gijs (talk) 10:37, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Parameter listings in template documentation

I noted that the skeleton examples with all parameters have been removed in some cases.

I very much prefer to still having a copyable skeleton template (with prefilled month, year, and/or date when those parameters exist) before the listing of parameters, rather than having to copy a fully filled out filled out example and remove everything I do not need or have to change. It feels very unnecessary.

On the other hand I do like the template data stuff very much, even though it is few extra steps.

Johan G (Talk | contribs) 11:41, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Hi Johan,
I'm not sure if you know this, but you can now add templates through the VisualEditor. If you press "Insert > Template" from the toolbar, you get a nice popup to help you fill in the template and it can also pre-fill stuff for you (e.g., the date in Template:Delete). The templatedata stuff on the template page is used to expand this popup form and drive the auto-fill, so most templates will not yet leverage it to the fullest. You can add/edit templatedata by clicking the "Manage TemplateData" button at the top of the edit page of templates. See the documentation at mw:Help:TemplateData (that page is unfortunately quite messy, I know) and mw:Extension:TemplateData.
I feel like we should encourage people as much as possible to use the VisualEditor, as it can help prevent mistakes or incomplete templates. Would this remove the need to have copy & pastable templates? Maybe we'll just have to try and see. There's lots of new stuff to discover and tweak :-)
Gijs (talk) 10:20, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Removing the "Goal" heading from template documentation

As we will likely go through and edit most of the template documentation to replace the current documentation of template parameters with template data, I would like to also remove the Goal heading from the template documentation and move that up to being a regular lead section.

I feel that the heading is largely redundant and have previously stuck to it mostly for consistency.

Johan G (Talk | contribs) 11:48, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Agree!
Gijs (talk) 10:20, 11 February 2021 (UTC)