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Project Rembrandt: Difference between revisions
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[[File:Rembrandtready.png]]. | [[File:Rembrandtready.png]]. | ||
For a list of converted aircraft, please see [http://flightgear.org | For a list of converted aircraft, please see [http://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17536#p166346]. | ||
=== Registering all translucent surfaces === | === Registering all translucent surfaces === | ||
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=== Mac Issues === | === Mac Issues === | ||
More and more Apple/Mac users are reporting issues related to running Rembrandt [http://flightgear.org | More and more Apple/Mac users are reporting issues related to running Rembrandt [http://forum.flightgear.org/search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keywords=rembrandt+mac]. | ||
Looking at the Mac GPU specs, it isn't clear if the Mac/ATI hardware/driver is generally insufficient, it should seem possible to run a customized Rembrandt setup with acceptable frame rates at 15-35 fps (assuming everything else being disabled for starters). | Looking at the Mac GPU specs, it isn't clear if the Mac/ATI hardware/driver is generally insufficient, it should seem possible to run a customized Rembrandt setup with acceptable frame rates at 15-35 fps (assuming everything else being disabled for starters). | ||
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GLSL compilers have varying quality and especially the Mac (ATI/AMD) GLSL compilers are known to have issues with more sophisticated/nested constructs, so that it may help to reduce complexity of GLSL statements by splitting them up, instead of using nested anonymous vectors or functions (fatal error C9999: Nested functions, aborting!) for example. | GLSL compilers have varying quality and especially the Mac (ATI/AMD) GLSL compilers are known to have issues with more sophisticated/nested constructs, so that it may help to reduce complexity of GLSL statements by splitting them up, instead of using nested anonymous vectors or functions (fatal error C9999: Nested functions, aborting!) for example. | ||
So, the specific issue on Mac is some shaders being miscompiled, so the frame-rates are particularly bad, since the driver is hitting (slow) error paths. Certainly some Rembrandt-related shades fail to compile, though whether or not these are optional or required ones, isn't clear (Fred?). Some users reported that the errors and problems after upgrading their OS from OsX, 10.6.8 to OSX 10.8.2 (Mountain Lion) [http://flightgear.org | So, the specific issue on Mac is some shaders being miscompiled, so the frame-rates are particularly bad, since the driver is hitting (slow) error paths. Certainly some Rembrandt-related shades fail to compile, though whether or not these are optional or required ones, isn't clear (Fred?). Some users reported that the errors and problems after upgrading their OS from OsX, 10.6.8 to OSX 10.8.2 (Mountain Lion) [http://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=19070&p=177106&hilit=rembrandt+mac#p177106] or OS Snow Leopard (10.6. to Mountain Lion (10.8.2), downloaded XQuartz 2.7.4 [http://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=19000&p=177570&hilit=rembrandt+mac#p176972]. | ||
The shader errors would suggest that certain GLSL constructs are not supported by the ATI/AMD glsl compiler - this seems to be a known issue: [https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/comp.graphics.api.opengl/H_FLQCQE1i4] To address this, one would need to port the corresponding shaders - like just was done to get rid of the constructs that caused errors on old GeForce 7x generation hardware. It seems the hardware is not the problem, but the driver being way out of date. I find the fact that it's the Cg compiler and not a native glsl compiler that returns the errors very strange. | The shader errors would suggest that certain GLSL constructs are not supported by the ATI/AMD glsl compiler - this seems to be a known issue: [https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/comp.graphics.api.opengl/H_FLQCQE1i4] To address this, one would need to port the corresponding shaders - like just was done to get rid of the constructs that caused errors on old GeForce 7x generation hardware. It seems the hardware is not the problem, but the driver being way out of date. I find the fact that it's the Cg compiler and not a native glsl compiler that returns the errors very strange. | ||
Another FG 2.10 user on MacPro 3.2 GHz Quad-Core Xeon, 8GB RAM, MacOS X 10.6.8. ATI Radeon HD 5870 (gl-vendor:ATI Technologies Inc., gl-version:2.1 ATI-1.6.36 gl-renderer:ATI Radeon HD 5870 OpenGL Engine, gl-shading-language-version:1.20) report said "Rembrandt is still unusable on my Mac. One frame every 4-5 seconds and it looks weird."[http://flightgear.org | Another FG 2.10 user on MacPro 3.2 GHz Quad-Core Xeon, 8GB RAM, MacOS X 10.6.8. ATI Radeon HD 5870 (gl-vendor:ATI Technologies Inc., gl-version:2.1 ATI-1.6.36 gl-renderer:ATI Radeon HD 5870 OpenGL Engine, gl-shading-language-version:1.20) report said "Rembrandt is still unusable on my Mac. One frame every 4-5 seconds and it looks weird."[http://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=18839&p=175737&hilit=rembrandt+mac#p175684] | ||
It's also worth noting that a number of FG 2.8 users reported that Rembrandt would still work for them using the 2.8 binary, unlike the 2.10 binary on Mac OSX version 10.7.5 on an iMac (AMD Radeon HD Graphics with 512MB) [http://flightgear.org | It's also worth noting that a number of FG 2.8 users reported that Rembrandt would still work for them using the 2.8 binary, unlike the 2.10 binary on Mac OSX version 10.7.5 on an iMac (AMD Radeon HD Graphics with 512MB) [http://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=19000&hilit=rembrandt+mac#p176460]. So the issue seems to occur largely in combination with older Mac OS versions and newer FG versions (>=2.8+) [http://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19396&hilit=rembrandt+mac#p179456]. | ||
It appears it is the Rembrandt lighting causing issues while in non rembrandt mode with older Mac OS + FG 2.8 and better. On other OS setups, the rembrandt lighting gets ignored when rembrandt is turned off, but not in this case. Both lighting modes are present and creating the weird light cone effects [http://flightgear.org | It appears it is the Rembrandt lighting causing issues while in non rembrandt mode with older Mac OS + FG 2.8 and better. On other OS setups, the rembrandt lighting gets ignored when rembrandt is turned off, but not in this case. Both lighting modes are present and creating the weird light cone effects [http://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19396&hilit=rembrandt+mac&start=15#p179655]. | ||
If there are any console messages (like warnings or errors) shown, that would be helpful to know. A number of rembrandt related changes got fixed by Fred like this. Obviously, it is difficult for shader developers to troubleshoot shader related issues that they cannot reproduce with their own hardware. | If there are any console messages (like warnings or errors) shown, that would be helpful to know. A number of rembrandt related changes got fixed by Fred like this. Obviously, it is difficult for shader developers to troubleshoot shader related issues that they cannot reproduce with their own hardware. | ||
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Some Mac folks have recently reported some success, it may be a good idea to search the forum for details, see for example: | Some Mac folks have recently reported some success, it may be a good idea to search the forum for details, see for example: | ||
* http://flightgear.org | * http://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=19000&p=177570&hilit=rembrandt+mac#p176972 | ||
{{cquote|I'm seeing regular crashes here from ALS and Rembrandt, but that's nothing new.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.mail-archive.com/flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net/msg40024.html|title=<nowiki>Re: [Flightgear-devel] 2.10.1</nowiki>|author=Vivian Meazza|date=Fri, 03 May 2013 10:16:13 -0700}}</ref>|Vivian Meazza}} | {{cquote|I'm seeing regular crashes here from ALS and Rembrandt, but that's nothing new.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.mail-archive.com/flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net/msg40024.html|title=<nowiki>Re: [Flightgear-devel] 2.10.1</nowiki>|author=Vivian Meazza|date=Fri, 03 May 2013 10:16:13 -0700}}</ref>|Vivian Meazza}} | ||